The Lost Trident Sessions
The Lost Trident Sessions
Artist Mahavishnu Orchestra
Album Title Lost Trident Sessions
Date of Release Jun 25, 1973 inprint
AMG Rating
Genre Jazz
Tones Intense, Fiery, Complex, Spiritual, Passionate, Cerebral, Sophisticated
Styles Jazz-Rock, Fusion
Type compilation
Time 39:28
Recorded in London on June 25, 1973, these sessions for a planned third Mahavishnu Orchestra album were shelved when the band decided to put out the live Between Nothingness and Eternity instead. Bootlegged in the past, two-track mixes of the missing album were discovered in the vaults in the late 1990s, paving the way for its official release in 1999. It's thus the last of the three studio albums done by the original Mahavishnu lineup (with Cobham on drums, Goodman on violin, Hammer on keyboards and Laird on bass). Although McLaughlin had been the only composer on the first two Mahavishnu albums, he only penned half of the six tracks here, with Goodman, Hammer and Laird pitching in a song each. It's fiery, if perhaps over-busy at times, fusion, McLaughlin reaching his most feverish pitches in the frenetic concluding passage of the ten-minute "Trilogy." The numbers written by other members than McLaughlin tend to be a little more subdued, and perhaps unsurprisingly less inclined toward burning guitar solos. — Richie Unterberger
1. Dream - 11:06
2. Trilogy/The Sunlit Path/La Mere de la Mer... - 9:30
3. Sister Andrea - 6:43
4. I Wonder - 3:07
5. Stepping Tones - 3:09
6. John's Song - 5:53
Jerry Goodman - Violin, Viola
Jan Hammer - Synthesizer, Guitar (Electric), Keyboards
Rick Laird - Bass
John McLaughlin - Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar, Guitar (Electric)
Ken Scott - Engineer
John Carr - Design
Billy Cobham - Drums
Mark Wilder - Mastering
Howard Fritzson - Art Direction
David Gahr - Photography
Ian Cuttler - Design
1999 CD Columbia/Legacy 65959
1999 CD Columbia/Legacy 65959
src: http://www.allmusic.com/
THE MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA:
THE LOST TRIDENT SESSIONS
by Walter Kolosky
Almost 30 years after its recording, producer Bob Belden came across the master tapes of what would become The Lost Trident Sessions. Belden had been working on the re-mastering of Birds of Fire when he found the tapes. The rest is history. At long last the aborted final studio effort of The Mahavishnu Orchestra was going to see the light of day.
Initially, the sessions were considered not up to snuff by JM to have them released. Instead, the live Between Nothingness and Eternity was released which featured several numbers from the failed recording sessions. In hindsight I think he was probably right. After all, if the vibe wasn't right and he was less than pleased, so be it. But, just because McLaughlin didn't think the sessions were up to standards, doesn't mean they weren't good. They are good and of historical significance. That is justification enough for there delayed release.
Apparently, all of the old members were contacted and asked for permission to release the recording, warts and all. This was probably done as a courtesy from Belden, because as far as any one can tell, the band members have absolutely no control over their Columbia Records output anyway.
At any rate, The Lost Trident Sessions provide us with the future direction of the MO. That is, they were going to break-up. This is evidenced by the appearance of 3 tunes contributed by members other than McLaughlin. Jan Hammer's piece "Sister Andrea" is familiar to us from the Live Between Nothingness and Eternity. Jerry Goodman's "I Wonder" and Rick Laird's "Steppings Tones" (SIC) also appear. In addition, JM penned pieces include "Dream", "Trilogy" and "John's Song #2". "Dream" and "Trilogy" were also found on BN&E, while "John's Song #2" is new to McLaughlin's recorded output.
"John's Song #2" is the album's standout. It serves as a precursor to style heard on Visions of The Emerald Beyond. The rapid-fire starts and stops and ever-changing themes make it a classic uncovered fusion treasure. It also serves as a particular showcase for Goodman. Jerry's violin soars on this album to a much greater degree than his earlier efforts.
The tighter versions of the BN&E tunes are welcome. "Trilogy" in particular is a taut composition which was later fleshed-out on the live album. Hammer's "Sister Andrea" is also pleasing and includes enough distinction to make it recognizable from the live performance. Hammer's soloing is more impressive on the studio effort.
"I Wonder" and "Steppings Tones" present a problem. Both tunes are somewhat simple, but catchy. Although enjoyable, they just do not belong on a Mahavishnu Orchestra album. One could understand the musical tension developing at the time after listening to these two cuts. In fact, strict Mahavishnuites would also point a crooked finger even at Hammer's "Sister Andrea" which gives early indications as to where the fusion movement was moving. Unfortunately, it was moving out of touch.
The most surprising aspect of the recording is the standout, up-front performances from Goodman and Laird. We all knew by this time how great McLaughlin, Cobham and Hammer were. Laird and Goodman, although clearly talented, seemed to be along for the ride. This recording corrects that misconception. Both players make strong statements and surprisingly, these statements are not made on their own compositions. For those of you who seek to validate Laird, go back and listen to "One Word" from Birds of Fire.
The sound quality is great for tapes which were gathering dust for all those years.
This album is an important historical find which contains some awesome music, but also gives indications as to why the band was running into problems. This is a must own for any fusion fan and any critics dismissing its quality or importance, should be summarily court-martialed.
Walter Kolosky
smsi@mediaone.net
src: http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/mclaughlin/disc/reviews/Trident.html
Track Listing
THE LOST TRIDENT SESSIONS :
1) DREAM 11:06(McLaughlin)
2) TRILOGY 9:30(McLaughlin)- - The Sunlit Path- - La Mere De La Mer - - Tomorrow's Story Not The Same
3) SISTER ANDREA 6:43 (Hammer)
4) I WONDER 3:07(Goodman)
5) STEPPINGS TONES 3:09(Laird)
6) JOHN'S SONG #2 5:53(McLaughlin)
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Recorded at Trident Studios, London, England / June 25-29, 1973
John McLaughlin - 6 & 12 string electric guitar & acoustic guitar
Jerry Goodman - electric violin, viola & violow (custom viola withcellostrings)
Jan Hammer - electric piano & synthesizers
Rick Laird - bassBilly Cobham - drums
PRODUCED BY THE MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA
Engineer: Ken Scott
Produced for Release by Bob Belden Mastered by Mark Wilder at Sony Music Studios, New York City
Special Thanks to Anthony Barone, Joseph D'Anna, Elliott Sears, Norman Shefield, Adam Sieff, Lynne Volkman and Nat Weiss
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Liner Notes
By Bill Milkowski
Imagine if some ambitious archivist had unearthed previously unreleased studio recordings of Robert Johnson or Louis Armstrong, the Beatles or Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis or John Coltrane. Their discovery would no doubt be hailed in music circles as important a find as the Dead Sea Scrolls. While this mythic scenario may be fun to fantasize about -- a kind of musicologist's take on Indiana Jones And The Lost Ark -- it actually happened to producer Bob Belden.
In November of 1998, while in the midst of gathering up tapes for a Sony Legacy remastering and reissue of the Mahavishnu Orchestra's triumphant 1972 release Birds Of Fire, Belden came across two extra unmarked quarter inch tapes that had been lying in Columbia's Los Angeles vault. These mysterious tapes indicated that they had been recorded in London but no other information was provided. After a bit of sleuthing, Belden realized he had stumbled upon a major find.These were in fact the two-track mixes of The Lost Trident Sessions, what was to have been the Mahavishnu Orchestra's third studio album for Columbia Records.
For years, bootleggers had floated inferior copies of these fabled tapes. Some caught up in the mystique even titled their bootleg copies "The Holy Grail," an apt description of how highly this long lost music was regarded by fusion fans in general and Mahavishnu devotees in particular. Individual band members had heard rumors about these bootleg copies. Violinist Jerry Goodman had even recently seen a CD version himself. The word among connoisseurs and internet chatters was that this music was positively smoking -- another incremental leap from the incendiary Birds Of Fire. That was to be expected. The Orchestra had been constantly touring and was at the peak of its communicative powers when they slipped intoTrident Studios in London on June 25th of 1973 to record this third studio album.
As keyboardist Jan Hammer notes, a quarter of a century after the fact, "The band was really, absolutely working on all 12 cylinders at that point." The only real mystery here was, why did such powerful, scintillating and important music sit on the shelf for 26 years before finally coming out? The answer to that compelling question is as complex and confounding as the nature of politics and interpersonal relationships. In a nutshell,the members of the Mahavishnu Orchestra had differing opinions about the quality of this material. One point of view held that it was complete as it was and certainly suitable for release. Another point of view argued for additional overdubs, perhaps a string section here or there to enhance the existing material. In the course of this stalemate, the music remained in limbo until an equitable decision could be arrived at. In the interim,the grind of constant touring put further strain on the group. All these elements can easily conspire to bring about dysfunction in the ranks,as was certainly the case with the Mahavishnu Orchestra by the summer of 1973.
Meanwhile, Columbia executives were hollering for another release from the band that had made such a big splash in 1971 with The InnerMounting Flame and followed with even bigger success in 1972 with the gold-selling Birds Of Fire. Unable to expedite and deliver the unnamed third studio album, the members of Mahavishnu decided to offer up a live album tothe label. Recorded on August 5,1973 in Central Park as part of the Schaefer Festival, Between Nothingness And Eternity captures the Mahavishnu Orchestra in concert. Around this time, dissension was eroding the band from within. There had been tension at the Trident session during thatlast week of June in 1973, as road manager Elliott Sears recalls. Egos flared and arguments ensued regarding composer credits. In the two previous Mahavishnu releases, John McLaughlin was listed as sole composer, although the other members maintain that their input and contributions at thetime of the recordings merited more credit than was given. At the outset of the Trident session, Hammer, Goodman and bassist Rick Laird took a firm stand, insisting that they too be able to contribute their own compositions to the album.
As Cobham notes in retrospect, "John loved the music of Stravinsky, for example. There's a few other composers I feel he tried to emulate in avery loving way in his writing. But he also had a small group of individuals (the band members) around him that were helping those things come to light. And they also had something to say and were only trying to help, only trying to put in their two cents here and there. And it would've helped in the long run if they were given their due.
The relationship would be probably one of insurmountable levels and highly positive to this day, if that small acknowledgment was made." McLaughlin ultimately relented and the Trident session moved ahead in more diplomatic fashion by including Hammer's "Sister Andrea,"Goodman's "I Wonder" and Laird's "Steppings Tones" to complement the threeMcLaughlin compositions -- the suite-like "Dream" and the mindblowing hyper-drive jamming vehicle "Trilogy," both of which the band had been performing in concert, and his more serene "John's Song #2." Cobham, perhaps wisely, opted not to push the issue of composer credits, choosing instead to channel that side of his musical makeup into his own solo projects (his groove-oriented 1973 album for Atlantic, Spectrum, was an auspiciousdebut and has endured over time as a fusion classic).
"I was not comfortable writing for the band," Cobham explains. "I didn't want to write like John, I wanted to have my own personality come through. And at that point, it would've been painful to be put down, to have a piece of mine rejected. The rest of the guys would fight for the right to express themselves in the band. Meanwhile, I had already decided that this was not the theatre of operations to comfortably present my ideas. So I decided to parallel that by making my own record."
With a live album released and another studio album in the can, the Mahavishnu Orchestra continued to tour relentlessly. Their itinerary was exhausting -- six weeks of continuous one-nighters. It was emotionally, physically, spiritually brutal, which only added stress to the group's already fragile dynamic. "There are certain benefits to playing a lot on the road," says Laird in retrospect. "I think we were better as a band because of it. We had more unity from the experience. But one of the drawbacks that I think began to effect us, even at that point, was the fact that we were so busy traveling and it was so exhausting that there was very little time for development of the music...for new music. We never rehearsed. Rehearsals never happened. In fact, I don't think we rehearsed at all after the initial two or three months. There just wasn't any time. So I think that affected things pretty badly in terms of musical growth."
Road manager Sears confirms the problematic nature of the band's schedule. "They never went into rehearsal again because they worked so much. So whenever John would have a new composition, instead of a soundcheck being at 4:30, they'd hold it at 3:30 and try to learn the tune in an hour and maybe play it the next night." Although their musical chemistry remained intact on stage, the band was gradually unraveling on an interpersonal level.
Hammer acknowledges that there were indeed tensions within the band, just as there were tensions over the years within the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. "Oh yeah,just like a marriage, you know," says Jan. "It wasn't an easy gig for any of us," acknowledges Laird, "not just the challenge of the music, but also the interpersonal aspects of the band.We all have our own defects to deal with. None of us are beyond reproach. I myself was going through a lot of personal inner problems at the time which I'm certain had an effect on my playing and my attitude towards the group. And we were all young. That's another aspect to this. I think Jerry and Jan were only in their early 20s. And I think it all went very fast. Nat Weiss was a powerful manager with a lot of experience in the field and hemoved things forward very aggressively. And I don't think any of us realized in the beginning how fast it was going to go, that we'd be selling out major concert halls and featured top of the bill. You know, it just happened so quickly."
Earlier in 1973, John had done an album with Carlos Santana entitled Love, Devotion, Surrender, which featured both Cobham and Hammer playing drums. McLaughlin and Cobham went on the road with Santana in support of the album while Goodman, Laird and Hammer traveled to Hawaii for somewell deserved r&r. At the end of their 10-city tour, McLaughlin and Cobham would rendezvous with their Mahavishnu bandmates in the first week of September for a flight to Tokyo. It was on that long flight to Japan that tensions really came to a head. Some weeks before, McLaughlin had sat down with a writer for an extensive interview for Crawdaddy magazine. The writer also interviewed the rest of the Mahavishnu band members to get their input. Unfortunately, Laird, Goodman, Hammer and Cobham used the opportunity as a platform to vent their dissatisfaction with the one-sided nature of the group.
After reading an advance copy of the Crawdaddy cover story (November 1973 issue) on that long flight to Japan, McLaughlin had felt betrayed by his bandmates. "What they should've done," says Sears in retrospect,"was vent their frustrations in a room with the door locked with the five of them together and maybe Nat Weiss as a referee. But they did it in print, which wasn't smart. John read the transcript of the magazine on the airplane on the way to Japan, and he felt like, 'How could you say this about me?' And that was really the beginning of the end." Or as Hammer sums it up: "We got sick of each other, obviously. The band just exploded, then imploded...into smithereens." Unable to resolve the conflicts that had been brewing for so long,the five agreed to disband at the end of the year. They played two nightsin New York at Avery Fisher Hall on December 27th and 28th, then flew to Detroit to play the Masonic Auditorium on December 29th. They performed their farewell concert on December 31st at the Sport Arena in Toledo,Ohio. (Transcriber's Note: As mentioned before, this is not correct. The last concert was in Detroit on December 30, 1973-- RS)
McLaughlin instantly formed an expanded edition of the Mahavishnu Orchestra that featured Michael Walden on drums, Ralphe Armstrong on bass, Jean-Luc Ponty on violin and Gayle Moran on keyboards and vocals. Their 1974 album Apocalypse featured the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas and was produced by George Martin of Beatles fame. Jerry Goodman and Jan Hammer, meanwhile, collaborated on Like Children for the newly formed Nemperor imprint under the auspices of Atlantic Records. Billy Cobham continued his solo career with more vigor, following up Spectrum in fine fashion with 1974's Crosswinds. Rick Laird, much to his dismay, returned to New York where he became a freelance bassist for hire. "I was thrust upon the New York jazz scene along with dozens of other aspiring bass players, and very quickly became very disgusted by the potentials in that field." He did a tour with Stan Getz in 1977 and the following year did a world tour with Chick Corea. Laird put out one album as a leader, Soft Focus, but put down his bassin 1982 and today is a successful photographer.
In their haste to get on with their respective careers, the membersof Mahavishnu, in essence, passed over their third studio session together. As Sears explained, "After a while, you don't think about it because it's yesterday's news. Everybody's moving on. And at a certain point, all the people that were at Columbia Records in 1973 aren't there any more. So it was forgotten. When I told the people at Sony that this album existed,they were dumb founded. They had no idea. How many people do you think who worked at Columbia Records in 1973 are still there today? No one. People move on, especially executives. So it was forgotten and buried, until I told Bob Belden about it."
Jerry Goodman went on to have a solo career, recording three albums for Private Music and touring extensively with his own group as well as with Shadowfax and the Dregs. He scored Lily Tomlin's The Search For Signs Of Intelligent Life In The Universe and is the featured violinist on numerous films, including Billy Crystal's Mr. Saturday Night. His violin can be heard on over 50 albums by such diverse artists as Toots Thielemans, Hall & Oates, Styx and even a reunion with McLaughlin on his album, ElectricGuitarist.
After Like Children, Hammer did two more solo albums before teaming up with Jeff Beck in 1976. Their incandescent chemistry resulted in a world tour, platinum sales for Wired and gold for Jeff Beck/Jan Hammer Group Live. In the early '80s, Hammer toured and recorded with two highly respected guitarists in Al DiMeola and Neal Schon. By the mid '80s, he delved into soundtrack work, composing for several feature films and television series. His score for the popular tv show "Miami Vice" led to a quadruple-platinum album, a #1 pop single and two Grammy Awards. In1991 he played a limited number of sold-out engagements with the Jan Hammer-Tony Williams Group and in 1993, he ventured into a brave new world of virtual reality videos by scoring "Beyond The Mind's Eye" for Miramar Productions. The ambitious project sold triple-platinum and remained on theBillboard music video charts for 125 weeks. Hammer continues to be active in both soundtracks and solo recordings.
Billy Cobham went on to thrive as a composer and bandleader, clinician and educator. He has recorded 25 albums as a leader and has toured and recorded with such notable artists as Peter Gabriel, Bob Weir, JackBruce, Larry Coryell and Gil Evans. Most recently, he has toured and recorded with the Grateful Dead off-shoot band Jazz Is Dead, featuring former Weather Report bassist Alphonso Johnson and Dregs keyboardist T Lavitz, andwith the Jazz Superband featuring bassist Stanley Clarke, guitarist Larry Carlton and saxophonist Najee. His other outlets include the fusion power trio Paradox and his latest group Focus, featuring longtime collaborator Randy Brecker on trumpet. His composition "Stratus" from the classic Spectrum is perhaps the most covered tune to come out of the fusion movement, even appearing recently as the background music on a tv adfor Victoria's Secret.
John McLaughlin has retained his position as one of the world's foremost guitarists. After disbanding the Mahavishnu Orchestra in 1975, he switched to acoustic guitar and formed a group with South Indian master musicians called Shakti, a scintillating hybrid of East-meets-West that actually pioneered the world music phenomenon. Since then, John has gone backand forth between electric guitar and acoustic guitar from his One Truth Band to hugely successful Trio with Paco De Lucia and Al DiMeola, from a short-lived third version of the Mahavishnu Orchestra in the late '80s,to a tender acoustic guitar quartet tribute to jazz piano great BillEvans, to a swinging organ trio with Joey DeFrancesco and the great jazz drummer Elvin Jones. His latest electric band is The Heart of Things with electric bassist Matthew Garrison, drummer Dennis Chambers, keyboardist JimBeard and saxophonist Gary Thomas. He also recently reformed Shakti (with bansuri master Hariprasad Chaurasia replacing violinist L. Shankar).
*****
I was very happy, actually, with the lost album," says McLaughlin in retrospect. "Of course, by the time we finished that recording, there was a lot of dissonance in the band, discontent...just really shit. What a shame. But I have a tendency to forget the bad things. I remember the good things. And we made some unbelievable music. We had some nights that were colossal...just amazing, phenomenal! And I've got that...these memories in my mind. And I'm happy with that." "The personal negatives that we were involved with are of much less importance than the actual music, which survives us," adds Hammer."That's really all that matters."
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"Some of the music was so involved and so intricate," says Sears. "I think that very few people could get on stage today and execute thatshit. It was so intertwined, so involved. The complex time signatures,unusual melodies and the sheer speed at which some of it was performed made it very, very sophisticated musically, then and now. The Orchestra took that style of music as far as it could go, and everything after that was just a copy, an imitation." With The Lost Trident Sessions, the Mahavishnu Orchestra had reached the peak of its volatile powers...and very possibly the apex of the entire fusion movement
.
-Bill Milkowski May 1999
Bill Milkowski is a regular Contributor to Jazz Times magazine. He is also the author of JACO: The Extraordinary And Tragic Life Of Jaco Pastorius (Miller Freeman Books) and Rockers, Jazzbos & Visionaries (BillboardBooks).
src: http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/mclaughlin/disc/full/lts.html
John McLaughlin's Reaction to the new release:
Excerpt from "John McLaughlin: Spheres of Influence"
Interview date: June 28, 1999 © Copyright 1999 by Anil Prasad.
Note: the full interview is located at: http://www.innerviews.org/inner/mclaughlin.html
Q: The long-lost Mahavishnu Trident sessions were finally authorized for release and are about to come out on Sony. Any thoughts on that?
JML: I didn’t authorize them! I don’t have any power whatsoever over these people, let’s get this clear right away. They do precisely what they want. They don’t care what I want or don’t want. They are essentially the owner of the tape and I am a secondary consideration. It’s as simple as that. That’s the way record companies are, but we need them. But I’m delighted because it’s a wonderful recording and they are idiots for losing the tapes and not releasing them a long time ago. Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise because it’s a great studio recording from 1972—that’s a long time ago. It has a great analog sound. In fact, there was another recording made of the Mahavishnu Orchestra live in Cleveland, Ohio in 1971 by CBS who are Sony now. It’s great and I would love it if they would release it as a recording. It was a phenomenal night. I asked them "Why don’t you do it? It’s great!" But they say "Yeah, maybe, yes, no, but…" So, they do what they want—whatever they want.
(Excerpt from the liner notes)
I was very happy, actually, with the lost album," says McLaughlin in retrospect. "Of course, by the time we finished that recording, there was a lot of dissonance in the band, discontent...just really shit. What a shame. But I have a tendency to forget the bad things. I remember the good things. And we made some unbelievable music. We had some nights that were colossal...just amazing, phenomenal! And I've got that...these memories in my mind. And I'm happy with that."
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Billy Cobham's Reaction to the new release:
Posted at Billy Cobham's forum by boomer (Billy's internet nickname) on September 01, 1999 at 03:31:54)
In Reply to: Trident posted by Gary Norris from on August 31, 1999 at 13:47:02:
: To anyone, not necessarily Billy.
: What exactly are the Trident sessions?
In the mid 70's the M.O. recorded what was to be it's 3rd studio album at Trident recording studios in London. I don't believe that those facilities exist anymore.........Anyway, the sessions were never completed and a live recording named "From Nothingness to Eternity" came out in place of these taped sessions. Then, for some strange reason, the tapes were "misplaced" and or forgotten for a long time although, I hear that bootleg versions have come out, and now, 'low and behold' the real tapes have been "unearthed" WOW!!!!!!!!
Boomer
There is a link to Billy's forum at:
billycobham.com
His email address is:
boomer@billycobham.com
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This is an email I recieved one day:
From USA , September 30, 1999
From:
Neil Kernon (ausland8@concentric.net)
Brilliant!
I am a record producer, and I was lucky enough to have worked on this (and 3 other) Mahavishnu albums. I'm from London, and was working at Trident Studios. The tapes from this session were truly lost. I was contacted earlier this year by Jan Hammer's manager who had wanted to gather info on the possible whereabouts of the masters. He was working with Jan in London at the time of the sessions, so he was well aware of their existence, even from memory. Mahavishnu still remains one of my favourite bands, and to have this rarity finally see the light of day brought a tear to my eye. Wow..it's so great to hear this again!!
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000
From: ESearsII@aol.com
Hello. This is Elliott Sears. I was the original Mahavishnu Orchestra's road manager and sound engineer from the band's inception in August 1971 until its last show on December 30, 1973, in Toledo, Ohio. Afterwards I continued to work with John until April 1975 while simultaneously managing Jan Hammer and Jerry Goodman, which I continued to do for the past 25 years.
I also was the person responsible for releasing The Lost Trident Sessions. I had tape copies in my possession since July 5, 1973 and first played them for Sony Legacy in December 1998. They had absolutely no idea that they existed.
Sincerely,
Elliott Sears
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000
From: ESearsII@aol.com
Subject: More Mahavishnu (Reply letter)
The original MO recorded numerous shows on multitrack tape (Cleveland 4/72, Buffalo 12/72, NY Felt Forum 3/16/73, Santa Monica 3/25/73 and several more) also several of the television shows were recorded on multitrack tape. Most of these tapes rest in the Sony vaults. It is completely and totally their decision as to, if and when they are released. Here's what's on the slate; Birds of Fire was remastered (20 bit, etc.) with new photos interviews etc. It was to come out last fall but was pushed back because of the LTS album.
However, it should be out by June or July. Public opinion and sales will dictate Sony's decision to release the live material. Pressure in the form of letters and e-mail from MO fans to Sony Legacy can't hurt. My best guess is that by years end at the earliest or hopefully not later than the summer of 2001 they will put out a double live set. Sony has a huge catalog going back 50 years and they release what they feel is appropriate for the time. We'll probably see all of Santana's old albums re-released as soon as possible so they can cash in on his recent success. Mahavishnu product will surface but it really depends on the success of the LTS and the re-release of BOF.
-ES
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I wrote to the email address listed on the LTS liner notes one day and recieved this:
From: MahaOrch@aol.com
I don't work for Sony. I worked with the band from its inception to its demise and have worked with the various members for the past 25 years. Also, there is no official MO web site.
With regrads to more material. Sony has approx. 6-7 complete shows on multi-track tape, which would make for at least a 2 CD Live album, if not more. However, the band and I are not the owners of the masters - Sony is. It would be in our mutual best interest if you and others would write Sony directly and tell them of your interest in hearing and buying (that's what they want to hear) more unreleased Mahavishnu material.
I would write to the director of Jazz at Sony/Legacy (Seth Rothstein)
or to the VP of A&R at Sony Legacy (Steve Berkowitz):
Sony Legacy
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Spread the word!
Thanks for your interest.
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Review: Amazon.com:
Recorded during a brief stop over in London on June 25, 1973, these unprepossessing studio performances, despite (or maybe because of) the heavy compression (particularly on the drums) and a mixed-on-the-fly feel, convey far more of the edgy, go-for-broke energy, ferocious solo intensity, and telepathic interplay of Mahavishnu's peak 1973 live shows than their only live album (the August 12, 1973, Central Park performance caught on Between Nothingness & Eternity).
McLaughlin's extended forms, "Dream" and "Trilogy," are made up of hyper kinetic blues vamps, classical elements from both the Western art music and Carnatic traditions,shifting minor modes and complex rhythmic cycles, while keyboardist Jan Hammer's "Sister Andrea" adds a welcome touch of funk to the formula. Unreleased tunes by violinist Jerry Goodman and bassist Rick Laird shed new light on their contributions to the band's overall repertoire, and everyoneplays like their life depends on it--no one more so than Billy Cobham, whose ability to swing rock rhythms and depict a wide range of dynamicnuances is simply remarkable. Cobham's ferocious exchanges with the guitarist walk the line between Hendrix-style psychedelia and Coltrane-like dervish dances. A thrilling snapshot of fusion's musical possibilities beforeit all went sour. --Chip Stern
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Jazziz Magazine:
Fusion fans rejoice! Columbia Records is finally issuing The LostTrident Sessions, long-lost tapes of John McLaughlin's Mahavishnu Orchestra (guitarist McLaughlin, violinist Jerry Goodman, keyboardist Jan Hammer, bassist Rick Laird, and drummer Billy Cobham). Rumors of the 1973 sessions have circulated for years, but the actual tapes were only recently discovered in Columbia's vault. According to Hammer, the tapes find the band at its peak. The band was really, absolutely working on all 12 cylinders at that point, he says. --JAZZIZ Magazine Copyright 1999, Milor Entertainment, Inc.
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From Sony's websight:
Missing for 30 years, "lost" masters for final studio album are discovered! The holy grail of fusion . . . . . . completes the Mahavishnu story! The mythic and much-rumored 1973 follow-up to Inner Mounting Flame and Birds Of Fire . . . will now be released by Columbia/Legacy on September 21st for very first time!
Since the inception of the CD, with its significantly lengthier playing time, it is hardly news when a record company issues previously-unreleased material by major artists. But it is news when a label unearths an entire, long-buried album by a band that at the time this music was recorded, both defined its idiom and achieved impressive sales figures, particularly for a non-rock group.
Such is the case with the singularly brilliant Mahavishnu Orchestra, led by the virtuoso guitarist-composer John McLaughlin (b. 1942), which in just two years -- 1971-'73 -- upped the amperage in jazz as never before and attracted a mass audience that had been for the most part heretofore untapped. Yet, the startling music comprising The Lost Trident Sessions (recorded in London in 1973) sat in a CBS Records tape vault for more than 25 years until it was discovered quite by accident.
For the Mahavishnu/McLaughlin legions who have continued to keep the (inner mounting) flame, this disc's appearance amounts to, as Bill Milkowski avers in his liner notes, "as important a find as the Dead Sea Scrolls." The faithful know that those sentiments are in no way hyperbolic.
Suddenly, the recorded studio output of the original Mahavishnu Orchestra has been increased by one-third. Once again, they flawlessly execute speed-of-light ensembles of terrifying rhythmic complexity, informed by Indian music, Stravinsky, and the most advanced jazz improvisation and rock sonics. There are times when the listener will swear that McLaughlin's double-necked guitar is overdubbed, when in fact, it is being shadowed as closely as possible by Jan Hammer's keyboards or Jerry Goodman' electric violin.
There is a duet between the guitarist and drummer Billy Cobham, their work every bit as exhilarating as it was the second it was captured on tape, suggesting the great Ravi Shankar's sitar in a dialogue with Alla Rakha's tablas. There are guitar sounds that, as producer Belden notes, "every heavy metal guy wanted to play but didn't have the chops." And, also very much in the Mahavishnu Orchestra tradition, there are passages of surpassing, mountain-lake beauty.
The Lost Trident Sessions album is more than worth the wait.
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Columbia Records Newsflash:
In a startling discovery, Sony has unearthed a missing third studio album by the seminal and most influential fusion band of the early '70s, TheMahavishnu Orchestra. Plans are to release THE LOST TRIDENT SESSIONS (CK 65959)on September 21, completing a trilogy of studio albums for Columbia Records by the original and most formidable Mahavishnu lineup of John McLaughlin on guitar, Billy Cobham on drums, Jerry Goodman on violin, Jan Hammer on keyboard sand Rick Laird on bass. Debuting in 1971 with the ground breaking Inner Mounting Flame , the Orchestra followed with the gold-selling Birds Of Fire in 1972. A third studio album, recorded in June of 1973 at Trident Studios in London, was finished but never released by the band.
Bootleg copies have cropped up around the world over the years [some were dubbed The Holy Grail to further entice hardcore fans and collectors but only recently has anyone endeavored to locate the long missing tapes of that fabled third Mahavishnu studio session. In February of 1999, while in the midst of gathering up tapes for a Columbia Legacy remastering and reissuing of Birds Of Fire, producer/archivist Bob Belden came across two extra unmarked quarter inch tapes that had been lying in Columbia's Los Angeles vault. These mysterious tapes indicated thatthey had been recorded in London but no other information was provided. After a bit of sleuthing, Belden realized he had stumbled upon a major find. Thesewere in fact the two-track mixes of THE LOST TRIDENT SESSIONS, what was to have been the Mahavishnu Orchestra's third studio album for Columbia Records. The Orchestra had been constantly touring from the outset of 1973 andwas at the peak of its communicative powers when it slipped into Trident Studiosin London on June 25th of 1973 to record its third studio album.
As keyboardist Jan Hammer notes, a quarter of a century after the fact, "The band wasreally, absolutely working on all 12 cylinders at that point." A significant difference in this third studio project is the presence of compositions from Hammer, Goodman and Laird. While McLaughlin had been sole composer on both Inner Mounting Flame and Birds of Fire , Goodman contributes "I Wonder," Hammer contributes "Sister Andrea" and Laird contributes"Stepping Tones" to complement three McLaughlin compositions -- the suite-like"Dream" and the hyper-drive jamming vehicle "Trilogy," both of which the band had been performing in concert, and his more serene piece "John's Song #2." Rather than offering the completed album to Columbia for release, the band members opted to shelve it and instead deliver the live Between Nothingness And Eternity (recorded on August 5, 1973 in Central Park as part of the Schaefer Festival) to the label for their third release. With a live album released and another studio album in the can, The Mahavishnu Orchestra continued to tour relentlessly. Their itinerary was exhaustive -- six weeks of continuous one-nighters, which took its toll on the band members emotionally, physically and spiritually, only adding stress to the group's already fragile dynamic.
Although their musical chemistry remaine dintact on stage, the band was gradually unraveling on an interpersonal level. Hammer acknowledges that there were indeed tensions within the band, just as there were tensions over the years within the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. "Oh yeah, just like a marriage, you know," says Jan. "It wasn't an easy gig for any of us," acknowledges Laird, "not just the challenge of the music but also the interpersonal aspects of the band.We all have our own defects to deal with. We were all young and it all went very fast. Nat Weiss was a powerful manager with a lot of experience in the field and he moved things forward very aggressively. And I don't think any of usrealized in the beginning how fast it was going to go, that we'd be selling out major concert halls and featured top of the bill. You know, it just happened so quickly.""We just got sick of each other," says Hammer in retrospect. "The band just exploded, then imploded...into smithereens."
Unable to resolve the conflicts that had been brewing for so long, the five agreed to disband at the end of the year. They played two nights in New York at Avery Fisher Hall on December 27th and 28th then flew to Detroit toplay the Masonic Auditorium on December 29th. They performed their farewell concert on December 31st at the Sport Arena in Toledo, Ohio.
McLaughlin instantly formed an expanded edition of the Mahavishnu Orchestra that featured Michael Walden on drums, Ralph Armstrong on bass, Jean-LucPonty on violin and Gayle Moran on keyboards and vocals. Their 1974 album Apocalypse featured the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas and was produced by George Martin of Beatles fame. "I was very happy, actually, with the lost album," says McLaughlin in retrospect. "Of course, by the time we finished that recording there was a lot of dissonance and discontent in the band. What a shame. But I have atendency to forget the bad things. I remember the good things. And we made someunbelievable music. We had some nights that were colossal...just amazing, phenomenal! And I've got that...these memories in my mind. And I'm happy with that." "The personal negatives that we were involved with are of much lessimportance than the actual music, which survives us," adds Hammer. "That's really all that matters."With THE LOST TRIDENT SESSIONS , the Mahavishnu Orchestra had reached the peakof its volatile powers ... and very possibly the apex of the entire fusion movement. Recd from Colombia records Daily Dish Aug 25th
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The Lost Trident Sessions
Mahavishnu Orchestra (Columbia Legacy)
Review by By Christopher Hoard (Christopher.Hoard@ingrammicro.com) from the websight: all about jazz
This lost-in-the-vault-for-26-years session represents the near-impossible fusion archivist's dream: to find a complete studio release by the fusion era's seminal band at the very height of the creative powers (and the height of tension between members off the stage). Most musicians and fans who remember the force and tides of change generated by John McLaughlin's greatest ensemble will agree this one was worth the wait.
Engineered by 70's production legend, Ken Scott, the tracks and takes have at times a rough, raw and unfinished edge -- but it doesn't matter. Why this album is so critical to the fusion canon is that it captures the frenzy of a band about to break up, but still at their creative peak -- and particularly with compositional contributions from members such as bassis Rick Laird and violinist Jerry Goodman -- which showcase their monstrous improvisational (and writing) capabilities, which were too dominated by McLaughlin in earlier releases. Jan Hammer demonstrates his prowess on Rhodes piano and mini-moog, and reminds us once again, that little has been accomplished in jazz with electronic keyboards that improves upon what Hammer routinely unleashed upon audiences in 1973.
Featured here are two fine extended mega-jams/suites by McLaughlin, who's playing and exchanges with Cobham's drumming runs the gamut from serene and subtle to molten ferocity. Bill Milkowski's liner notes, featuring comments from all the band members offer a healthy dose of musical history and perspective on one jazz's most revolutionary ensembles. It's also a reminder that since this time, rock-influenced instrumental jazz has rarely risen to the level of interplay and inspiration heard here. The Lost Trident Sessions offers us a veritable rendering of fusion's equivalent to the "Lost Sea Scrolls."
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THE LOST TRIDENT SESSIONS
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Columbia/Legacy
To believe the hype that accompanies the release of The Lost Trident Sessions is to believe that a misplaced album from 26 years ago by the original Mahavishnu Orchestra would be of the same significance as previously unknown recordings by, say, Robert Johnson, Louis Armstrong, the beatles, Miles Davis or John Coltrane. The flaw in this breathless logic is simple: While Johnson et al. made music that has stood the test of time, the Mahavishnu Orchestra's bombastic fusion of jazz and rock has dated badly.
The Lost Trident Sessions would have been the quintet's third LP had the tapes not been shelved and forgotten amid the confusion created by the imminent and apparently acrimonious parting of guitarist John McLaughlin, violinist Jerry Goodman, keyboard player Jan Hammer, bassist Rick Laird and drummer Billy Cobham.
McLaughlin subsequently formed two other versions of the band, but the first remains the definitive one. While its first two LPs, Inner Mounting Flame and Birds of Fire, may still hold some sentimental value - who can forget the sheer exhilaration of hearing Cobham power the band through 17/8 at lightning speed for the first time? - The Lost Trident Sessions has no such nostalgic appeal.
There are no revelations here. The music is typically shrill and frantic - fusion at its most primal, despite a few reflective overtures and interludes along the way. The rhythms are heavy, the riffing heavier, and the McLaughlin, Goodman and Hammer solos so grimly virtuosic that they begin to sound silly from today's vantage point, especially when coloured by wah-wah pedalling and electric keyboards that fairly scream "1973."
- M.M.
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The Mahavishnu Orchestra: The Lost Trident Sessions (Columbia/Legacy 65959)
Review by Billboard Online
The originator of a smart, scorching brand of jazz/rock fusion in the early '70s, the initial Mahavishnu Orchestra was wildly successful and still firing on all cylinders when embattled egos and tour-frayed nerves caused the group to disintegrate prematurely. Guitarist John McLaughlin, keyboardist Jan Hammer, violinist Jerry Goodman, bassist Rick Laird, and drummer Billy Cobham left behind just two epochal studio albums and a live-wire concert set. Or that was all there was until Legacy producer Bob Belden hit a mother lode last year while preparing the first albums for reissue. He found the Mahavishnu album recorded in London's Trident Studios in 1973 that was left unreleased and forgotten with the quintet's dissolution. It was an incredible find, as the set brims with the Mahavishnu's patented high-octane virtuosity. McLaughlin, in particular, has never sounded better than he does here, in full metallic flight. Even after a quarter-century, there are few bands that rock like this one.
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Better late than never, right? That's what the members of '70s rock/jazz fusionists the Mahavishnu Orchestra are saying. The band's long lost third album, The Lost Trident Sessions, will finally be making its way into the CD racks on Sept. 21 on Columbia/Legacy -- some 27 years after it was recorded.
Formed by British guitar virtuoso John McLaughlin in 1971, the Orchestra recorded two albums (1971's Inner Mounting Flame and 1972's Birds of Fire), and one live album (1973's Between Nothingness and Eternity), before bickering over composing credits broke up the band. In June of 1973, however, the band recorded what was to be their third album at Trident Studios in London. As a result of the breakup, the album was never released and has been hidden away in Colombia's Los Angeles vault ever since.
Unlike the band's first two albums, Trident features compositions from additional members in the band, including violinist Jerry Goodman's "I Wonder," keyboardist Jan Hammer's "Sister Andrea," and bassist Rick Laird's "Stepping Stone."
Bootlegged versions of the album have surfaced over the years, some under the name The Holy Grail, but this marks the first official release of the record ever.
Three of the five band members went on to have successful careers after the break-up of the group -- Billy Cobham made lots of hit fusion albums in the '70s; Jan Hammer wrote the music for Miami Vice and played with Jeff Beck; and of course John McLaughlin formed Shakti. After the original Mahavishnu Orchestra broke up, McLaughlin made a couple more albums under the name Mahavishnu Orchestra.
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Mahavishnu Orchestra's The Lost Trident Sessions is finally being released, and for fusion fans, it's as if a previously unheard Beatles album just hit the stores. Since this jazz-rock supergroup (guitarist John McLaughlin, drummer Billy Cobham, keyboardist Jan Hammer, bassist Rick Laird, and violinist Jerry Goodman) made only two studio albums, this never-released 1973 set is a fabled treasure. Mahavishnus' dramatic, elaborate soundscapes typify opening cut "Dream," with its frenzied, Eastern-influenced riffery and throbbing funk passages. What should have been a vinyl side one concludes with the suite "Trilogy," which features a folkish melody rolling around in the band's electronic mesh and a paint-peeling hard-rock groove. Goodman's "I Wonder" provides a concentrically circling platform for exquisite guitar, drum, and synthesizer soloing, and "John's Song" is tense and hypnotic. The ironfisted timbres of Hammer's "Sister Andrea," like some of the album's material, was featured on the group's live album, Between Nothingness & Eternity, recorded just weeks later.
The Trident Sessions languished in a vault for years because the band couldn't agree on its quality. If Mahavishnu's fans were given their say, the album would never have been lost in the first place.
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Review by Ken_Micallef from Launch.com
Like Deep Purple jamming with Dizzy Gillespie, the Mahavishnu Orchestra fused rock flame with jazz brains. Released after years of availability as a U.K. bootleg, The Lost Trident Sessions was to be the final album from the original lineup of these '70s jazz-rock innovators.
Like Inner Mounting Flame and Birds Of Fire before it, The Lost Trident Sessions is a classic. Three of the tracks, "Dream," "Trilogy," and Jan Hammer's dark "Sister Andrea" appeared on the live album Between Nothingness And Eternity, but the studio versions are even more staggering (and much more listenable). Billy Cobham's powerfully complex drumming and Hammer's innovative Moog synth interplay with John McLaughlin's proto-metal/ jazz guitar remain some of the most blistering improvisations ever set to tape. There are also three new songs: Violinist Jerry Goodman's "I Wonder" begins softly, then ignites with acid rock guitar, a Cobham squall, and a menacing Hammer solo. Bassist Rick Laird's Indian-tinged "Stepping Stones" is a bit dull, but the final track, "John's Song #2," sounds like heavy-metal jungle, a dizzying firestorm of combustible funk and devilish melodies.
Like a Dead Sea scroll full of arcane wisdom, this uncovered gem reveals a language that is now lost in an era of smooth jazz and commercial trad-core.
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MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA • The Lost Trident Sessions • Columbia/Legacy (CK 65959)
Review by David Dorkin of Fuse Magazine Online
Here it is at last: the lost third studio disc from the original line-up of the Mahavisnhu Orchestra. Well worth the wait (26 years!), this disc is one of the finest releases from the early years of fusion and not just a historical curiosity. In fact, this may be John McLaughlin (guitar), Jerry Goodman (violin), Jan Hammer (keys), Billy Cobham (drums) and bassist Rick Laird's finest hour in the studio together. From the opening tune "Dream", an eleven minute polyrythmic tour de force, to the varied textures and sections of "Trilogy", this disc demonstrates just how exciting and innovative this group really was. It is difficult to single out any one track as the disc is so uniformly excellent and full of tight ensemble playing, well articulated counterpoint, and brilliant soloing. Any serious Fuse reader should own this. Recommended.
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"Lost Trident Sessions" from the Mahavishnu Orchestra - a must for all Fusion fans!
Review by by Howard Hart of HHGI Online Magazine
Let's say your favorite band is Led Zeppelin... or perhaps you're a jazz guy, and totally into Miles Davis... or maybe you're nuts over Cream, and... well, you get the idea. What if one of your all-time favorite artist's had recorded an entire full length album of all new material (no out-takes, filler, or sub-standard stuff), had mixed and mastered it; then, because of personal problems within the group, simply never released it? - Well, that's exactly what "The Lost Trident Sessions" represent to fusion fans the world over.
This was supposed to be the Mahavishnu Orchestra's 3rd release... the follow-up to the monumental "Birds Of Fire", which literally re-wrote the book on what could be done with the jazz/rock/fusion concept... And things would never be the same again!
Because of discord within the band itself, it was decided to shelve the album (they broke up shortly thereafter...) - and the live album "Between Nothingness & Eternity" was released to fill the contractual obligation to Columbia Records. Although the live album was certainly wonderful in its own respect... the truth is that The Trident Sessions kick its little butt from here to eternity. The band is functioning on full-throttle; tighter than ever, more cohesive, and just plain killing thru-out this entire disc.
From the moody opening of "Dream", with it's beautiful interplay between McLaughlin and Goodman, to the stunning "Trilogy", with all its fire and passion - this outting is extraordinary. One of the coolest things about this particular release is the compositional contributions of the other members (something which hadn't occured on the previous 2 releases). Each and every track is excellently composed, realized and performed.
John McLaughlin's closing contribution "John's Song #2" is like nothing you've ever heard in this universe! This cut, in particular, hints at the eventual musical territory McLaughlin would explore with the second incarnation of the Orchestra before delving heavily into the Eastern explorations of Shakti... and the dynamic interplay between McLaughlin and drummer Billy Cobham thru-out the entire album is just incredible.
Needless to say, this would have been a much more fitting follow-up to "Birds Of Fire", and undoubtedly would have placed an already legendary outfit into the realm of "super-gods"... If you loved the Mahavishnu Orchestra, or haven't yet discovered them - you'll wanna check this release out.
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Review by Richie Unterberger from AllMusic.com
Recorded in London on June 25, 1973, these sessions for a planned third Mahavishnu Orchestra album were shelved when the band decided to put out the live Between Nothingness and Eternity instead. Bootlegged in the past, two-track mixes of the missing album were discovered in the vaults in the late 1990s, paving the way for its official release in 1999. It's thus the last of the three studio albums done by the original Mahavishnu lineup (with Cobham on drums, Goodman on violin, Hammer on keyboards and Laird on bass). Although McLaughlin had been the only composer on the first two Mahavishnu albums, he only penned half of the six tracks here, with Goodman, Hammer and Laird pitching in a song each. It's fiery, if perhaps over-busy at times, fusion, McLaughlin reaching his most feverish pitches in the frenetic concluding passage of the ten-minute "Trilogy." The numbers written by other members than McLaughlin tend to be a little more subdued, and perhaps unsurprisingly less inclined toward burning guitar solos.
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Wire (11/99, p.54) - "...preserves the energy which made the group's initial appearance so momentous for many listeners....retains the impact of an adrenaline surge, and at its best....is also electrifying..."
Mojo (12/99, p.130) - "...the chance to hear such an extraordinary ensemble at the very peak of their powers with studio sound is manna for the faithful."
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More select excerpts from Billy Cobham's Forum:
Posted by boomer at on September 17, 1999 at 01:24:41:
In Reply to: sri chimnoy
Posted by kent stratton from on September 16, 1999 at 23:27:48:
: i have heard rumor that you and jan hammer left the mahavishnu orchestra because you did not approve of sri chimnoy's influence over john mcglaughlin. is this the real reason the band broke up?
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WAS FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boomer
Posted by boomer at on October 17, 1999 at 23:02:43:
In Reply to: Reforming Mahavishnu Orchestra With Original Line-up?
Posted by Vic Arkilic from on October 16, 1999 at 23:20:04:
: Dear Mister Cobham, With the Columbia/Legacy release of Mahavishnu Orchestra "The Lost Trident Sessions" how about the original band getting back together to do some shows for the fans? I saw the original group perform back in the 70's and it would be fantastic to hear you perform together again as the original Mahavishnu Orchestral! Sincerely Vic Arkilic
I don't know if that is ever possible again but it is a good thought.
Boomer
Posted by boomer at on October 10, 1999 at 16:00:45: In Reply to: Mr. Cobham's thoughts about the "lost tapes"?
Posted by Anders Snellman from on October 07, 1999 at 13:26:51:
: Dear Mr. Cobham,
: Have you yet heard Mahavishnu Orchestra's The Lost Trident Sessions? What are your thoughts and impresssions about the music? In my opinion it is fusion at its best and a valuable piece of history that was luckily found.
: Kind regards,
: Anders Snellman
I have not heard the recordings so, I reserve judgement. I would think that the music should hold up fine as it was and is still very fresh.
Boomer
Posted by boomer at on September 18, 1999 at 12:22:26:
In Reply to: Getting fired from MO
Posted by Siegfried Duray-Bito from on September 17, 1999 at 16:41:18:
: In an earlier thread you mention you were fired from the Mahavishnu orchestra. Care to relate any particulars? Who fired you? Were the other members similarly fired or handled differently? With the passage of time, what is your perspective on the whole episode?
:Thanks, Siegfried
No, Siegfried,
I would not like to elaborate past that statement since old wounds need to stay closed.
boomer
Posted by boomer at on September 08, 1999 at 17:05:52:
In Reply to: JM
Posted by Diche Zhelms from on September 08, 1999 at 15:02:23:
:Mr. Billy,
:I have reading a quote from John Mclaughlin that Lost Trident Sessions recording were very great and the band was not getting along good the time. I have heard also that he was perhaps the reasons for the problems. In my country this kind of person in group is called the Jujasaibanni. This means in English, "scabs on the penis". Is this true for your band? You drummer is best.
Good by,Diche
John M. had his vision and for some reason it was not In harmony with the thoughts of the rest of the band. Opinions are what make the world a world. Sometimes we are in sync and at other times we are not!
boomer
Posted by boomer at on August 09, 1999 at 16:00:22:
In Reply to: Play again with John MClaughlin
Posted by Siegfried Duray-Bito from on August 09, 1999 at 12:48:07:
: Hi Billy!
: In answer to a recent question about playing again with John McLaughlin, you posted NO! Is this an emphatic no, as in no way, ever again, or just a mild no, as in no such current plans? Have you listened much to John's recent work? Electrically, he's done the Heart of Things, with Dennis, Matt Garrison, Jim Beard and Gary Thomas. I saw them live a couple of years ago - John and Dennis jammed hard like the old days... It must be tough thinking about playing again with someone like John - there's all these expectations to make it sound like the magic of 25+ years ago. Do you think it's possible for two musicians with your history to get together with a clean slate - almost as if you're discovering each other for the first time? You and John have grown so much over the years, yet I have this nagging feeling there's a special chemistry between you that deserves to be performed and heard. Just my opinion, of course...
Siegfried
Sigfried,
No means that there are no plans on the table to perform with John Mclaughlin.
Posted by boomer at on November 20, 1999 at 03:12:24:
In Reply to: Phenomenon: Compulsion
Posted by Jeff from on November 19, 1999 at 17:22:02:
: I'm gonna lay off posting for a while after this - I don't want to overdo it!!
: Billy -
: I know it has been a long time, but could you give us some insight into the process that went into the duet you did with John McLaughlin called "Phenomenon: Compulsion" that appeared on his JOHNNY MCLAUGHLIN: ELECTRIC GUITARIST record? I'm not so much interested in how you played this or that, but I'd be interested to know what had taken place between the two of you before the tape rolled (at least the take that was kept for the record, whichever one it was) to coordinate all that ruckus. I surmise that there was a lot of interaction in real time but it is clear to me that the result is a mixture of the planned and the spontaneous.
: For those of you who haven't heard this, it's a two-man jam from hell - it's a pile of wreckage! But it's great! Despite my description, it is NOT total chaos! There is clearly intelligence at work.
: - Jeff
The musical relationship with McLaughlin and I at that time was such that it was easy to absorb each other's presentations and fuse them together to make an musical statement.
This not an unusual thing, but an element required to make music a communicative avenue.
src: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/scotters2/LTSRvw.html
=======================================================================
From: "Walter Kolosky" <smsi@attbi.com>
To: "one-word JM mail list" <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk> Subject: [OW] JM Music
Project Album #1 (JMMP)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:33:20 -0500
Dear fellow one-worders:
I am about to draw the first album out of the hat...in real time....
And that album is..(reaching into hat):
THE TRIDENT SESSIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There should be many interesting thoughts on this one!
For the next two weeks those of us participating should listen.... form our
thoughts and post. I am hopeful we will all enjoy this "group listen" and
exercise. Please don't rush to post. We have two weeks to post and discuss.
For those of you who do not have this album...go get it!
Regards,
Walter
For the next two weeks those of us participating should
listen.... form our thoughts and post. I am hopeful we will all enjoy
this "group listen" and exercise. Please don't rush to post. We
have two weeks to post and discuss.
For those of you who do not have this album...go get
it!
Regards,
Walter
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] JM Music
Project Album #1 (JMMP)
Hello to All,
Walter wrote re the JMMP:
>I am hopeful we will all enjoy this "group listen" and exercise.
I just wanted to say that I'm *reeeeeally* looking forward to reading list
members opinions. I'm on record as not being particularly fond of a lot of
John's pre-Mahavishnu work; I just don't get it listening to it on my own.
So I'm hoping that I can get some insight from others on what they
appreciate about that period, what I should be listening for, the personal
stories of what the music means to them, etc. And I really hope that our
newbies and lurkers join in with their comments; it won't kill ya to say
"Hi!".
Have a great weekend,
r
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:57:44 EST
From: KtheONE000@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OW] JM Music Project Album #1 (JMMP) To: <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
I can already tell this project is going to sell lots of JM albums! (To me.) Luckily, I have the Trident Sessions.
I wrote a message to the list telling Walter that I liked this idea, but it
didn't send. SO...
Walter, great idea!! This will be fun. In the words of one Mr. John
McLaughlin after a Remember Shakti show(while hugging my friend and I
around the waist and pulling us tight to pose for a picture) "This is
real....TOGETHERNESS!!"
Kerry
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:08:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Anant Sundaram <aksundaram@yahoo.com>
Subject: [OW] JMMP: LTS
To: One Word <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
The first thing that strikes me as I put on LTS on my CD player is how
superb the recording quality is on this album: every note is clear; every
instrument can be heard at (almost) all times, even in ensemble; there is
tremendous presence; Cobhamís drums actually thump; Lairdís anchor-like
bass just stands out cleanly and yet unobtrusively. In fact, I would put
the sound quality on this CD as being among JMís best (the two others that
come to mind are Apocalypse and The Believer). It also made me wonder what
it all must have sounded like in the studioÖ..
In any event, I had decided to give LTS a spin with my 6-year old in tow.
Given her attention span, I figured I may have to listen in discrete
chunks. I started with one of her all-time JM favorites, Trilogy (granted,
six is not ëallí that much ëtimeíÖÖ). She was a little over 4 when I first
got the CD, and at that stage, we were into making up stories to go with
ësongs with no wordsí during long drives to preschool and back every day.
Trilogy became this story about this girl who is playing on the beach under
the gentle sun, building sand-castles and listening to the waves and
seagulls and birdsÖ..whenÖ. all of a suddenÖ.. (you know the part, when
Goodman comes out screeching and blazing in full glory, and the three
musicians build on each otherís call-and-response in one big crazy
shootout) BAM!! The crashing, the monsters, the thunder, the lightningÖ.
run, run (and my favorite thing to do then was to chase her around the
house; by his point Mom is going ëturn it down!!í)Ö until suddenly, all
calm returns (with what is perhaps Lairdís most beautiful (and repetitive)
bass run ever ñ I have long wished that that part of Trilogy was ripped out
into a separate song that MO just sat around and soloed on for an entire
album! The subtlety of Cobhamís drum work in that passage alone is
sufficient for me to make him the greatest drummer I have heard). Bottom
line: Trilogy on LTS completely outshines the BNE version for me. What
makes it even more so is the sound clarity that enables the listener to
plumb the depths of the amazing interplay among three gifted musicians
(which, as Mass points out, seems to happen less and less in jazz). And on
top of that, Cobham and Laird have never played better, IMHO.
However, I cannot say the same about Dream or Sister Andrea (by now, my
six-year old had lost interest and wandered off). BNE is hands-down better
there. Although Dream gets off to an otherworldly beginning with Johnís
gentle acoustic and Jerry's violin, thatís about where it ends for me. And
the enduring feeling from Sister Andrea on LTS was best summarized by an
OW-er soon after that CD was released (I forget who it was ñ my
apologies!): Hammer sounds so **pushy**
Goodmanís and Lairdís pieces are sort of cute, but they pale in comparison
to the other MO body of work. Johnís Song is interesting as a foreshadow of
his Shakti days, and as I had pointed out then, seemed to be an eerie
preview of Srinivasí Maya (I suppose it is quite probable that Srinivas
heard LTS before he came up with Maya, since the CD came out at about the
same time that he was starting to work with JM ñ I can see a situation
where Srinivas was saying to himself, ëlet me give this guy that I am going
to play/tour//record with a listení and subliminally somehow, it seeped
into his work).
However, the most important thing to me from LTS was how, twenty five years
after it was all done and in 1999, it still sounded so immediate, so far
out, so ahead of its time, and more full of energy than just about all else
put together that I heard during the intervening years. These five guys
together were simply amazing. There were none like them before, and none
after (at least, not so far; honestly, I doubt that there will be for
while). I still find it somewhat difficult to fathom that a bunch of 20+
year olds had fashioned something so out-of-this world, so mature, so
complex and intelligent, and so **demanding** not only of themselves but
the listener. Also, LTS (when I heard it in 1999) made me realize, all over
again, why I had fallen in love with JMís music in the first place, and why
a great deal of what I heard during the intervening years ñ despite my
considerable broadening of musical horizons ñ was pap, by comparison.
In a pardoxical way, I am happy they disbanded when they did because I
doubt that level of intensity could have been maintained, let alone
endured. (LTS betrays signs that the fraying had begun). The worst thing
would have been to watch and listen to (the original) MO musically wither
way, like much of the later WR, Corea, and Miles did (for me).
They exploded on to the scene, then imploded at the 'right' time, and left
me wanting more. Listening to the resurrection of MO in LTS after twenty
five years was like opening a bottle of vintage wine, discovering that was
still fine after all those years.
Cheers
Anant
From: "Walter Kolosky" <smsi@attbi.com>
To: "one-word JM mail list" <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
Subject: [OW] JMMP: Lost
Trident Sessions
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:36:18 -0500
"John's Song # 2" is the missing father of "Be Happy" from Visions of the
Emerald Beyond. The head is different, but many of the devices and, in
fact, pieces of the music are almost identical. (Especially the ending!) I
say "missing father" because, of course, LTS wasn't around for us to refer
to.
It is interesting how each of us looks at LTS differently. Massimo and
Anant see a Remember Shakti precursor. Alex doesn't like the sound
(understatement). Still some others compare it unfavorably to Between
Nothingness and Eternity.
First on the sound issue. There are a few static crackles from time to time
on the recording. I wish they weren't there, but they are. They don't
bother me much however. Also I will say that the panning of JM's acoustic
guitar from left to right channels may have been an interesting device at
the time...to me it is irritating. (Or was this mixed this way now?)
All in all, this is a better album than BNE. It is better for the following
reasons.
1) Sound. The sound on BNE is atrocious. In fact, those of you who have
really listened have noticed that Jan Hammer's call or responses are barely
audible several times. This was clearly a technical glitch. As much as I
love BNE, I have always been disappointed in its overall sound. To listen
to the studio recording of Dream was a revelation to me. For 25 years I was
under the impression that JM played the intro to Dream on an electric
guitar. It took Rod Sibley, who had seen the band live, to set me straight.
The pure beauty of the acoustic shines through on Dream's intro from LTS
and that is reason enough to be happy with LTS right from the get-go.
2) It has been noted by several people already that they prefer the Dream
on BNE to the LTS version, noting that it is stretched out. I would argue
that the LTS Dream is a more cohesive piece. The fact is that Birds of Fire
and every other Mahavishnu tune was stretched-out live. Therefore, I don't
think it is a fair comparison. The Dream on LTS, I am hopeful without the
irritating panning, was as it was meant to be IMHO.
3) I find the actual playing on LTS to be superior than BNE. Once again,
Alex mystifies me a bit here. I listened to this album twice yesterday and
the playing is energetic as all hell. In fact, the band threatens to
explode during Trilogy. Maybe it was anger. Whatever it was, give me more.
4) Jerry Goodman. Whether it was the mix, as Alex suggested, or more
involvement in the music, I think Jerry Goodman answers the call on LTS.
His playing, especially on John's Song#2 is outstanding. I loved the mix.
The best tunes in order are John's Song#2, Trilogy, Dream, Sister Andrea, I
Wonder and Steppings Tones (confusing title).
Alex was right about one thing. This album does show why the band will
break up. Call me a Mahavishnu Orchestra PURIST. The Goodman tune and the
Laird tune are enjoyable. But that is it. They don't belong on a Mahavishnu
album. They belong on a Jan Hammer album. Especially disappointing is
Goodman's composition. From some of his later works, we can see he had some
composing talent...but the simpleton machinations of I Wonder don't give a
hint of it. And certainly despite all the complaining in the band about
credits, those two tunes pale in comparison to the JM penned pieces. I
would not have been interested in more tunes written by those guys for MO.
(No wonder John walked away crying). And finally, and I have said this
before to the chagrin of many, I never really considered Sister Andrea to
be a Mahavishnu piece either. Let Jan have it for his albums. I like the
tune alright, but doesn't anyone have a problem with the head..Da-da-Doom..d
o.do.do.do..Da-da-Doom...maybe it is just me.
(NOTE: The only other Mahavishnu Band member, the first time around, who
came close to writing some impressive MO tunes was Michael Walden. Way of
the Pilgrim and Cosmic Strut being his best pieces. Mahavishnu plus a
little funk).
I happen to be one of those people who do believe albums which have
historic value can raise the quality of the product. To release LTS 25
years after it was recorded and to hear that unbridled energy which was a
trademark of MO and good fusion music was a shot of adrenalin for my
system. I am hoping there will be more material released soon to help me
get my next fix.
Regards,
Walter
From: SwanSpontane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:18:05 EST
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP: Lost Trident Sessions
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Thanks Walter,
You expressed many of my thoughts on the LTS v BNE issue, but far more
eloquently than I could.
T.I. Swan
From: Massimo Morrone <morrone@italway.it>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JM Music Project Album #1 (JMMP)
I love this album and particularly JmL's compositions because they have
more "thickness" harmonically and more challenge to perform. Mc Laughlin
tunes are "serious fun" the others just fun to me. Music is beyond time.
For example notice the analogy between JmL's "John's Song" and Remember
Shakti-Shrinivas' "Maya" with just 27 years of difference!
Many have tried the Spanish key or, if you prefer, the Phrygian mode. A few
added "body" to this idiom and JmL has been one of them and strangely
enough still is. This "body" attitude can be applied to his open-chord
freak mind which somebody describes as "retro" cancelling the nature of the
guitar itself.
Last but not least the "interactive dialogue" attitude ("Trilogy") which
seems to be a lost art these days of technology and perfect sonic
overdubbing. This music and the whole concepts are fresh and alive,
undoubtely and every note counts.
Best
Mass
PS: You can find four of the six tunes from this album at WBTG-Scores,
thanks to Daniel Rheault and Lucas Pickford.
--
------------------------------------
http://www.italway.it/morrone/
------------------------------------ <> <>
From: Mark Staskauskas <mstaskau@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [OW] JM Music
Project Album #1 (JMMP)
I had always wished that the Mahavishnu Orchestra would put out a live
album with some of their studio tunes on it. With the release of the Lost
Trident Sessions, Between Nothingness and Eternity retroactively became
such an album. It was definitely strange to hear the studio versions of the
BNE tunes so many years after the live versions had been imprinted on my
brain from countless listenings.
I've always been a big fan of live recordings. The Pat Metheny Group's
Travels and Weather Report's 8:30 are two of my favorite albums by these
artists, mainly because the live versions of their signature tunes are so
much more energized and assured than the studio versions. In listening to
LTS and then BNE again this weekend, I noticed the same thing happening,
namely that Dream, Trilogy and Sister Andrea on LTS all pale in comparison
to the live versions of BNE. Dream is almost ten minutes shorter on LTS,
and is missing a lot of John's fabulous extended soloing. Sister Andrea in
particular sounds somewhat stiff and tentative on LTS, and Trilogy never
really gets off the ground the way it does on BNE.
As for the previously unreleased tunes on LTS...IMO they're all competent
Mahavishnu pieces, but none of them really stand out. On the whole, I was
kind of disappointed by LTS. Had it been released at the time it was
recorded (say, after Birds of Fire but before BNE), I think I would have
liked it more, and I would have had an even greater appreciation of BNE as
a live follow-on album.
Stas
From: "Scott Steele" <scottst@ohsu.edu>
To: <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
Subject: [OW] JM not happy with the initial sessions; Jan's manager?
>JM certainly was NOT happy with the original sessions. We don't really know
>about the other players' feelings. I think that yes indeed he was happy with
>the release of LTS, but I surmise that some of that had to do with vanity and
>the release of the original compositions.
Or perhaps John had a change of heart about that music and remembers it
(and that band) more fondly now than he did in the, say, ten years after it
broke up, where every question seemed to be "When are you getting MO1 back
together?".
>(I do believe Jan is on record as liking LTS. In fact, was it not actually HIS
>manager who was involved with helping to get LTS off the ground after all
>these years?)
Didn't Elliott Sears have a strong involvement with MO1 in general, and not
just Jan Hammer at that time? - S.
np: Material, Intonarumori
scottst@ohsu.edu
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Hello to All,
"This stuff fucks with your brain" - Demetra, while listening to 'Trilogy'
The Lost Trident Sessions
I had a bit of enlightenment on something that is so simple in its concept
but very difficult in its practice: when you listen to something, listen to
*it*.
I started reviewing "LTS" last weekend. My first draft was a scathing
attack; even more than Alex's post. I ripped it up, down, and sideways. I
then realized that I would have to defend certain comments that I had made,
so I listened to "LTS" again to "shore up" my arguments. After the second
listen, my first draft seemed overly harsh. So I started revising it.
Four more re-listens and four more revisions later (with the harshness
level lessening with each one), I finally figured out that although I was
listening to "LTS", I was hearing "BN&E". It is hard not to make direct
comparisons between the two. But each must be judged on its own terms.
I'm a slow learner.
Though the usual comparison is with "BN&E", for me the real comparison is
between "LTS" and "Birds Of Fire". "LTS" was going to be the next studio
release. Regardless of how history eventually played itself out, this was
the intent at the time.
Putting myself back into a 1973 frame of mind and recalling my utter bliss
at having discovered the MO (and seeing the original five, live...twice):
had this been the album after "BOF" *as it currently is*, I would have been
a little disappointed. I add this disclaimer because we don't know what
would have been changed or tweaked had the MO decided on releasing the
album back then. So for the purposes of discussion here, let us assume that
a minimal amount of changing was done.
In 1973 I would have been disappointed because "LTS" does not represent the
MO moving forward. For example: the compositions, the musicianship, and the
production values on "BOF" show a step forward from it's predecessor,
"IMF". "LTS" does not show the same type of progress. "LTS" is a bit of a
step backward from "BOF". Mind you, in 1973, I wouldn't have been expecting
"BOF-2". I would have been expecting more. "LTS" only gives so much.
In my first draft, I wrote the following:
I can't help but wonder what would have been the result if the MO had
rehearsed and performed this material live [more] before they tried to
commit it to tape. Time-wise, only 6 or 7 weeks had gone by between the
"LTS" dates and the Central Park concerts which yielded "BN&E". Had the MO
gone into the studio at the time they recorded "BN&E", I believe the
results would have been substantially better.
[Back to now] I mentioned three points where I thought "LTS" was lacking:
Compositions: this is a no-brainer. The writing of the Hammer, Laird and
Goodman was not at the same level of John's. They are sincere efforts, so
you can't knock them too hard. But 'I Wonder' and 'Steppings Tones' are
very repetitive. And two strong songs ('Dream' and 'Trilogy') do not make a
complete album. I've said before that I wish that Cobham had submitted
"Quadrant 4" or some other tune from "Spectrum for the MO to cover.
Musicianship: From "IMF" to "BOF" Cobham started playing a double bass drum
kit, Hammer got a Mini-Moog, John got a doubleneck, even Rick bought a
bass. The sonic palette expanded and these new things were incorporated
into the band. From "BOF" to "LTS", things are at a bit of a plateau. John
didn't get the Bogue "Double Rainbow" until three weeks after the sessions.
Hammer was the only one who had anything to work with as far as new sounds
to develop.
As far as the playing: there are a few miscues in the ensemble playing. And
there are a few times where John ain't quite there. For example: his solo
on 'Sister Andrea'. As soon as he hit that first note, it was over. He
managed to pull it out. But if the band had decided to release these tracks
in 1973, I'd bet a Heineken that John would have overdubbed that solo.
Production values: As I said, I'm comparing "LTS" to "BOF", not "BN&E". And
in that comparison the sound on "LTS" is a major step backward. And it is
here where I have the biggest gripe(s).
First, I don't believe that "LTS" has to copy the sound of "BOF" to be good
recording. And I don't believe that drenching music in reverb is a
cure-all; in fact it's the reason why I never listen to the "After The
Rain" CD. HowEVver, you can mix. And the mixes on "LTS" are awful. The
instruments lay on top of one another. The mixes have no depth or
definition. "IMF" is not soaked in reverb, and any version of "IMF" sounds
better than "LTS".
The material suffers needlessly because of the bad mix. 'Steppings Tones'
is a prime example. There is a lot going on in that track. Had that track
been properly mixed, given more depth, it would have comparable to 'Hope'
on "BOF". Not in terms of its power, but in terms of the track lending
itself to repeated listenings in order to try and hear all the instruments
and movement within the song. But that potential is mixed right out.
You don't hear the instruments on "LTS", you notice them.
The dynamics are always at the extreme: I had to adjust the volume
(thankful, with a remote) numerous times while listening to this CD. One
level did not "fit all". It's like television, where the commercials are
louder than the program you're watching.
The guitar sound is brittle, lacking fullness. The 12-string has no shimmer
at all.
And there is no way that you can listen to Billy's drums on "BOF" and think
for a second that the drums on "LTS" sound good. The drums on "LTS" sound
like pure-de-shit. One thing about British engineers is that you can tell
them apart by the sound of the bass drum. Roy Thomas Baker: Queen, Journey,
The Cars. Eddie Offord: Yes, ELP. Tony Visconti (more his guitar tones than
drums): T-Rex, Bowie...and on and on. Ken Scott's bass drum sound is
usually what I call "muffled cannons": you get a small part of the blast
and most of the shockwave. No way would I imagine this being Ken Scott's
work. There are times where "LTS" sounds like a glorified demo tape.
The cruelest thing is, for once, Rick's bass isn't totally buried in the
mix (at least not as much as usual), and then the entire recording is
eventually buried in the vault.
Okay. I know that we can't change history. In 1973, I would have been
disappointed. In 1999, I thought that despite its flaws, "LTS" had some
historic value and was better than getting stabbed in the eye with a sharp
stick.
Maaaan, am I glad I toned this version down compared to the first draft.
atb,
r
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Aloha,
Just a quick correction to my post. I wrote:
>And I don't believe that drenching music in reverb is a cure-all; in fact it's
>the reason why I never listen to the "After The Rain" CD.
I meant to write, "...in fact excessive reverb is the reason why I never
listen to the "Time Remembered" CD."
tanx,
r
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Hello to All,
Walter wrote:
>Regarding comments from Rod, Ian et al. on the sound and mixing etc.
>I sort of give LTS a free pass on this stuff. LTS was not the album that MO
>was putting out...so I always have considered it unfinished.
>There is no way, and in fact it wasn't, that LTS in its current state would
>have been released in 1973.
This was a bone of contention within the MO. From the "LTS" liner notes:
"In a nutshell, the members of the Mahavishnu Orchestra had differing
opinions about the quality of this material. One point of view held that it
was complete as it was and certainly suitable for release. Another point of
view argued for additional overdubs, perhaps a string section here or there
to enhance the existing material."
And toward the end of the liner notes:
"I was very happy, actually, with the lost album," says McLaughlin in
retrospect."
I say the possibility existed that "LTS" could have been released in its
current state.
>As I alluded to in my review, you must look at the historical record of this
>album as having importance.
I agree. The basis of my post was why "LTS" would have been a weak
recording in 1973, not why (or that) it's weak now.
>I for one, was quite pleased at the quality of the sound considering that the
>tapes had been sitting around aging someplace.
Although it was a large part of my post, the sound quality issue wasn't the
only reason I gave as to why "LTS" would have been a weak third MO album.
>I still say from a sonic view, LTS has it all over BNE.
I agree.
>I must also disagree with my good friend Rod on something else. Rod compares
>LTS to BOF. I just don't see that at all.
I wasn't comparing the two stylistically. I compared them on the basis of
"LTS" being recorded with the intent of it being the next MO record. I
don't believe that at those June sessions, there was a "Plan B" of "if this
doesn't work, let's record the concerts that are coming up in August and
put them out instead".
Stuart wrote:
>Hello: re LTS: it's worth noting a few points. Analog tape is prone to
>deterioration. Despite archival storage procedures, tape deterioration is
>common, and can be noticeable even after a few years, let alone 25ish years.
"MGB", "IMF", and "BOF" are older that "LTS". Why don't they sound crappier
(or as crappy) than "LTS"?
When the Beatles catalog was being prepared for reissue on CD, producer
George Martin was asked regarding "Sgt. Pepper" how much work was needed to
get it ready for CD. Martin said (paraphrasing) "Very little, because we
got it right *the first time*."
Part of the reason "LTS" sounds the way it does is because it was recorded
that way; badly, IMO. No remastering is going to magically fix a poor
recording.
>Regarding the content and production on LTS: Obviously I don't know for sure,
>but my guess is that it's highly unlikely that LTS, in its released form,
>would have been considered as "finished work" by the players and producer.
I responded earlier in this post to this scenerio. But without making this
an overly technical exercise, here's an open question:
What do you think needed to be done to make "LTS" finished and releaseable?
>Given the stressed dynamics in the band at that time of LTS, it's an honest
>record
I agree.
atb,
r
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Hi Y'all,
I wrote:
>I meant to write, "...in fact excessive reverb is the reason why I never
>listen to the "Time Remembered" CD."
Brother Alex wrote:
>Is it possible that the echoy sound that permeates "Time Remembered" is the
>natural sound captured in a large, echoy room? In other words, why are we
>assuming that the producer screwed it up by applying some cheesy reverb?
I'm not commenting on "how" the echo was achieved, just that there's too
much of it for my taste. An echoy large room can be controlled by using
acoustic tiling, baffles in the room, etc.
The excessive reverb on "Time Remembered" detracts, or distracts ;-), from
the music. Purely a shortcoming on my part ;-). I'm sure it'll come up as a
JMMP topic.
atb,
r
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Hi Y'all,
I wrote:
>I meant to write, "...in fact excessive reverb is the reason why I never
>listen to the "Time Remembered" CD."
Brother Alex wrote:
>Is it possible that the echoy sound that permeates "Time Remembered" is the
>natural sound captured in a large, echoy room? In other words, why are we
>assuming that the producer screwed it up by applying some cheesy reverb?
I'm not commenting on "how" the echo was achieved, just that there's too
much of it for my taste. An echoy large room can be controlled by using
acoustic tiling, curtains, baffles in the room, etc.
The excessive reverb on "Time Remembered" detracts, or distracts ;-), from
the music. Just a subjective opinion. Purely a shortcoming on my part ;-).
I'm sure it'll come up as a JMMP topic.
Mass wrote re my musical taste:
>....Rod: that doesn't mean any Detroiter has to be like you, anyway! :-)
Oh I quite agree. And there are quite a few in Detroit that are glad that
there is only *one* of me. More than that is asking for trouble ;-).
atb,
r
From: "Ian Hopper" <GQINH@danisco.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:23:26 +0000
I wish I had waited 5 minutes before posting my feeble comments, I think I
would have reconsidered in the light of Rods comprehensive mail.
Ian
From: "Stuart Munro" <munrostuart@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:44:23 -0800
Hello: re LTS: it's worth noting a few points. Analog tape is prone to
deterioration. Despite archival storage procedures, tape deterioration is
common, and can be noticeable even after a few years, let alone 25ish
years.
Regarding the content and production on LTS: Obviously I don't know for
sure, but my guess is that it's highly unlikely that LTS, in its released
form, would have been considered as "finished work" by the players and
producer.
What we see is what we get. I tend to see LTS as a studio snapshot of the
band after a few years of steady touring. Lets not forget that every
Mahavishnu Orchestra concert (hundreds of them) was like an Olympic event.
Given the stressed dynamics in the band at that time of LTS, it's an honest
record.....Stuart Munro
Walter wrote:>
>Regarding comments from Rod, Ian et al. on the sound and mixing etc.
>I sort of give LTS a free pass on this stuff. LTS was not the album that MO
>was putting out...so I always have considered it unfinished. There is no doubt
>you can hear instruments being "plugged-in" here and there almost as if
>someone flipped a switch. There is no way, and in fact it wasn't, that LTS in
>its current state would have been released in 1973. As I alluded to in my
>review, you must look at the historical record of this album as having
>importance. I for one, was quite pleased at the quality of the sound
>considering that the tapes had been sitting around aging someplace. I still
>say from a sonic view, LTS has it all over BNE.
>I must also disagree with my good friend Rod on something else. Rod compares
>LTS to BOF. I just don't see that at all. I compare it more with Visions or
>even Apocalypse! My reasoning is this. JM's tunes, and Hammer's, on LTS are
>much longer...almost anthem like if you wish. I do think this was a shift in
>JM's thinking. I am not saying this is necessarily a good thing, but I do
>think it was a step toward the symphonic approach JM would eventually employ.
>Walter
From: "Alex B" <alexoneword@hotmail.com> To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:21:27 +0000
>From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley) Aloha,
>Just a quick correction to my post. I wrote:
>>And I don't believe that drenching music in reverb is a cure-all; in fact
>>it's the reason why I never listen to the "After The Rain" CD.
>I meant to write, "...in fact excessive reverb is the reason why I never
>listen to the "Time Remembered" CD."
Rod,
Is it possible that the echoy sound that permeates "Time Remembered" is the
natural sound captured in a large, echoy room? In other words, why are we
assuming that the producer screwed it up by applying some cheesy reverb?
Maybe that's how it actually sounded while they were playing in a spacious
studio setting.
Not that it really changes anything (if you don't like reverb, you don't
like it, natural or artificial), but I wanted to give it a fighting chance,
because the soundwall of guitars is quite beautiful (even if on a sugary
side).
Best regards,
Alex
From: "Alex B" <alexoneword@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:27:35 +0000
>From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
WWhat do you think needed to be done to make "LTS" finished and releaseable?
This is an easy one: re-record everything starting from scratch, striving
for a more inspired playing. Then, master it carefuly and polish all the
rough edges.
If the Beatles weren't beyond that (even as they were falling apart -- cf.
"Abbey Road"), I don't see why MO should have been.
Alex
From: Massimo Morrone <morrone@italway.it>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Alex B wrote:
>>From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley) Aloha,
>>Just a quick correction to my post. I wrote:
>>>And I don't believe that drenching music in reverb is a cure-all; in fact
>>>it's the reason why I never listen to the "After The Rain" CD.
>>I meant to write, "...in fact excessive reverb is the reason why I never
>>listen to the "Time Remembered" CD."
>Rod,
>Is it possible that the echoy sound that permeates "Time Remembered" is the
>natural sound captured in a large, echoy room? In other words, why are we
>assuming that the producer screwed it up by applying some cheesy reverb? Maybe
>that's how it actually sounded while they were playing in a spacious studio
>setting.
>Not that it really changes anything (if you don't like reverb, you don't like
>it, natural or artificial), but I wanted to give it a fighting chance, because
>the soundwall of guitars is quite beautiful (even if on a sugary side).
>Best regards,
>Alex
_______________________________________________
FROM THE DEC:1993 DOWN BEAT ISSUE:
"Waltz for Bill Evans-John Mc Laughlin" by John Diliberto
....It's a more classical, maybe more European view of Bill's music,"
admits guitarist Mc Laughlin from a hotel in Cologne, Germany. But for the
seemingly ageless musician, who nevertheless turns 52 in January, that was
an essential element of Evans' art. "I think we should remember that in
this period of the late '50s with Miles, Bill and Gil Evans both brought
this very strong color of the French impressionists, Ravel, Debussy, and
Satie, especially from Bill," says Mc Laughlin, who having played with
Miles Davis, can lay claim to the same lineage. "This was a predominant
color and influence he brought into jazz music. Of my own favorite colors,
Ravel is my favorite composer; so it's true, it doesn't have this
night-clubby atmosphere. But it has this atmosphere of a studio in Milan,
and we're playing his music, and it's beautiful music......
__________________________________________
Alex: it's evident that Rod's taste for music it's a bit different from the
one (e.g.) of a European man like Mc Laughlin!
....Rod: that doesn't mean any Detroiter has to be like you, anyway! :-)
All the Best
Mass
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From: "Alex B" <alexoneword@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:11:33 +0000
>From: Massimo Morrone <morrone@italway.it> FROM THE DEC:1993 DOWN BEAT ISSUE:
>"Waltz for Bill Evans-John Mc Laughlin" by John Diliberto
>But it has this atmosphere
>of a studio in Milan, and we're playing his music, and it's beautiful
>music......
>__________________________________________
>Alex: it's evident that Rod's taste for music it's a bit different from the
>one (e.g.) of a European man like Mc Laughlin!
Thanks for a very thoughtful quote, Massimo. Yeah, I was suspecting that
the recording actually captured the way the studio breathes. I've only
noticed that recently, when I (finally) got some high-end audio equipment
installed. Boy, listening to music now sure feels different. But the
difference in listening to "Time Remembered" on a regular and high-end
stereo is like day and night. What used to be just a smudge of cave-like
echo that would hurt my ears is now a sweet sounding whisper of the
yearning upper register of John's amazing guitar.
Alex
From: "Alex B" <alexoneword@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:41:00 +0000
>From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
II'm not commenting on "how" the echo was achieved, just that there's too
>much of it for my taste. An echoy large room can be controlled by using
>acoustic tiling, baffles in the room, etc.
Oh yeah, it is excessive, no doubt. I just thought that some of us may
resent it more if we thought that it was due to the lack of taste when
mastering it. But, as you've pointed out, it may have been a lack of taste
in recording it. Whatever it may be, I'm sure the intention was to capture
the feeling of spaciousness. As opposed to the 'space' captured on
"Electric Guitarist", where the instruments absolutely don't breathe (too
much acoustic tiling, padding and baffling, for my taste).
Alex
From: Massimo Morrone <morrone@italway.it>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Rod Sibley wrote::
>Mass wrote re my musical taste:
>>....Rod: that doesn't mean any Detroiter has to be like you, anyway! :-)
>Oh I quite agree. And there are quite a few in Detroit that are glad that
>there is only *one* of me. More than that is asking for trouble ;-).
Which obviously brings to the old tale:
"Detroit: where men are men and sheeps are scared"....or whatever...(once
upon OW). :-)
atb
Mass
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From: Massimo Morrone <morrone@italway.it>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Alex B wrote:
>Whatever it may be, I'm sure the intention was to capture the feeling of
>spaciousness. As opposed to the 'space' captured on "Electric Guitarist",
>where the instruments absolutely don't breathe (too much acoustic tiling,
>padding and baffling, for my taste).
>Alex
Well, those were CBS days for vynil. I think they experimented some new
vynil technology in terms of EQ.
Best
Mass
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From: "BRANDON TETIRICK" <brandontetirick@msn.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:28:06 -0500
I think it's interesting the way the cover art (at least the cd I have) is
done, I don't have it in front of me but as I recall it shows JM in a very
elegant, comfortable looking living room sort of setting looking over the
back of one of his beautiful acoustics in a manner which to me suggests
looking over the closed cover of a grand piano. Obviously they wanted some
of the aural characteristics of the piano and the sustain and reverb. It's
lush almost to the point of being too much (like the music itself)IMO, but
all in all I like it.
Brandon
From: "Stuart Munro" <munrostuart@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:55:06 -0800
open question...
>What do you think needed to be done to make "LTS" finished and releaseable?
Well....We have read that JM was happy with LTS, so that's good enough for
me. But other band members were not happy with the record.
I imagine that when it was decided to release LTS, there must have been
some debate over giving the tapes the digital workover, which with enough
work, could have improved it. I have noticed that artists in general are
almost always of the mind that a work can be improved upon.
Best not screw around with the original work....I recently heard a
digitally enhanced recording of Leadbelly, from 1922. The sound was was
squeaky clean and crystal clear, and to me sounded lurid...
>When the Beatles catalog was being prepared for reissue on CD, producer George
>Martin was asked regarding "Sgt. Pepper" how much work was needed to get it
>ready for CD. Martin said (paraphrasing) "Very little, because we got it right
>*the first time*."
I have a copy of the Beatles live at the BBC. It sounds like exactly what
it is...an awesome band playing well.....so what if it's not the best sound
money can buy....
stuart
From: Luapnniuq@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:45:52 EST
Subject: Re: [OW] JMMP#1: LTS
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
I read that John Mclaughlin has nothing to do with what the companies do
with he re-releasing of his stuff, he seemed kind of pissed about it,I'll
see if I can find the interview, I read it on the net somewhere.
From: "Filacchione, Alex (ISSAtlanta)" <alexf@iss.net>
To: one-word-daily@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] RE: LTS (one-word-daily V1 #973)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:22:42 -0500
I agree with this statement:
I have a copy of the Beatles live at the BBC. It sounds like exactly what it
is...an awesome band playing well.....so what if it's not the best sound
money can buy....
LTS, mixed poorly or not, is stil a "historic" record of sorts. It shows
where they were at the time, and these were (as someone else noted) initial
takes of the songs, so comparing rough initial takes to an album that has
been gone over and over, remixed, reEQed, overdubbed, etc., etc., etc. is
like comparing apples to oranges IMHO.
That being said, I really LIKE LTS. In fact, it's one of my favorites. LTS
and VotEB are the two that I can listen to end to end over and over again.
I love BoF, but I find myself skipping over certain songs all the time
(ditto w/ IMF - actually, even more so). Apocalypse I have to be in the
mood for to listen to it.
I think that LTS sounds really RAW, and I like that. You can really HEAR
the energy in JML's playing, and the intensity too. All in all, I think
that the energy is captured much better than on BNE, which at times almost
seems "washed out" because of the mix and sound. The upfront, in your face
guitar is something that I really like and welcome. Not everything has to
be over produced (or even produced at all in some cases)!
The energy, intensity, and in your face sound of this CD is what sets this
one apart from the others, for me at least, and is why I listen to this MO
CD more than that others.
Just thought I'd add a differing opinion!
Brain21
From: SwanSpontane@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:22:45 EST
Subject: Re: [OW] RE: LTS (one-word-daily V1 #973)
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
In a message dated 3/22/02 12:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, alexf@iss.net
writes:
<< LTS
and VotEB are the two that I can listen to end to end over and over again.
I love BoF, but I find myself skipping over certain songs all the time
(ditto w/ IMF - actually, even more so). Apocalypse I have to be in the
mood for to listen to it. >>
I couldn't agree more. In fact, if I can't listen to VotEB in it's
entirety, I'd rather not listen at all. Kind of like walking out on a
favorite movie halfway.
VotEB was my first MO.
Extrapolation is the closest to my heart. That little disc take me away.......
(yes, I realize Extrap is not MO)
From: "Alex B" <alexoneword@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Re: LTS
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:50:55 +0000
>From: Sound Advice <slbr03460_2@blueyonder.co.uk> I think an important point
>which most people seemed to have missed about LTS
>is that it is an 'Unfinished' work; This is just the results of the first
>sessions for this album.
>there were plans to go back in and add Strings plus overdubs.
>I think what we have here is the best of the first session and I'm surprised
>therefore that JM would acknowledge it since it is so blatantly unfinished.
>Compared to BN&E it's a rough demo at best, but it is interesting for John's
>Song no 2 and the clearly unfinished versions of "I Wonder" (compare this with
>the finished article on 'Like Children" and 'Stepping Tones'.
>With this in mind one can put the album better in context with IMF and BOF.
The gripes I'm having with LTS is that it sounds like any MO wannabe band
could have recorded it. Such thing could never be said for either IMF or
BoF -- I can't imagine any group of musicians coming even close to
recording those two. IMF and BoF bear unique Mahavishnu Orchestra
fingerprints. LTS doesn't.
Maybe LTS sounds so generic because it is 'unfinished'? I don't know. But,
whatever it is, there is hardly anything in it that sets it apart from the
vanilla fusion crowd. Even "Inner Worlds" contains more inspired playing.
Alex
From: SwanSpontane@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:18:24 EST
Subject: Re: [OW] Re: LTS
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
In a message dated 3/22/02 11:52:01 AM Central Standard Time,
alexoneword@hotmail.com writes:
<< Even "Inner Worlds" contains more inspired playing. >>
Blasphemy
From: "John Campbell" <johnstrad37@hotmail.com>
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] Re: LTS JMMP
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:47:06 -0500
Lost Trident Sessions doesn't compare with any of the MO I, II or III
output. The Jan Hammer Jerry Goodman album is a lot better than LTS.
IMF and BOF sound like they were brought back from outer space. These
albums are both so awesome that no way could LTS even be from the same
band.
The only thing it has going for it is the nice foldout innersleeve. I
framed it and it looks really cool in my office.
Ya gotta love this list though, we started out with LTS and Rod stomped on
Time Remembered and now Inner Worlds bashing too! Two of my favorite JM
albums. Ouch.
Take Care,
John
>From: SwanSpontane@aol.com
>Reply-To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
>To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [OW] Re: LTS
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:18:24 EST
>In a message dated 3/22/02 11:52:01 AM Central Standard Time,
>alexoneword@hotmail.com writes:
><< Even "Inner Worlds" contains more inspired playing. >>
>Blasphemy
Really listen to All in the Family. It's some great JM and Narada interply
and Stu Goldberg kicks ass.
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] Re: LTS JMMP
Hello to All,
John C. wrote:
>Ya gotta love this list though, we started out with LTS and Rod stomped on
>Time Remembered and now Inner Worlds bashing too! Two of my favorite JM
>albums. Ouch.
Let's remember that one of the purposes of the JMMP is to help us
rediscover JMcL music that we do not always listen to. And we will have to
listen to the selected recording; not base our comments on older opinions
about the music. Nothing is engraved in stone. I'm open to change
(otherwise I never would have remarried ;-) ). The role of the List is to
*help* me see the error of my ways, and point me in the right direction to
appreciating the music.
Have a good weekend,
r
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:55:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Sandy Freeze <sandyfreeze_ow@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [OW] Re: LTS JMMP
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
HellOW, John. Let's all pass the hat, and send OW'l Rod "Miles OWt" on a
trip to Europe. It will be a "Time Remembered", and he will dicover his
Inner Worlds in Electric Deams; Que Alegria!.
I found my MO-LTS CD last night on a music stand (under some OW hard copy).
I read the Liner notes, again, when not looking at Cameron Diaz,
J Lo, and, Gwyneth Paltrow last night. Considering the turnover at
Columbia/Sony, after many years it seems that we're lucky to have LTS see
the light of day. Musicians slipped out of the primary focus of the
Music business.
Deja 'Vishnu: I have a Billy Cobham interview from Gig magazine in the
70's, and will scan, soon. He warily mentions what I assume to to be MO-LTS.
Canada's Denzel, Sandy
--- John Campbell <johnstrad37@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Lost Trident Sessions doesn't compare with any of the MO I, II or III
>output. The Jan Hammer Jerry Goodman album is a lot better than LTS.
>IMF and BOF sound like they were brought back from outer space. These albums
>are both so awesome that no way could LTS even be from the same band.
>The only thing it has going for it is the nice foldout innersleeve. I framed
>it and it looks really cool in my office.
>Ya gotta love this list though, we started out with LTS and Rod stomped on
>Time Remembered and now Inner Worlds bashing too! Two of my favorite JM
>albums. Ouch.
>Take Care,
>John
=====
E|"x3"-----x3"r3+(2,0)+++----|E
B|"--a0++++++++"|------------|B
G|"----m0++++++"|----a0++++++|G
D|"------k2++"+"|--m2++"+++++|P
A|"K3++++++"+++"|K3++++++K3k2|A
E|",---,---,---"|,---,---,---|E
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:07:34 EST
From: KtheONE000@aol.com
Subject: [OW] JMMP: LTS
To: <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
I listened to LTS yesterday, and here are my thoughts so far: 1) My first
exposure to this music was on BN&E, and my first impression of this album
was that it sure did lack the energy of BN&E. Everything was just
"whimpier" 2) I listened to "Trilogy", (which is my favorite MO song
ever-particularly the opening section), and noticed that it was toned down
quite a bit from BN&E. However, I was thinking to myself how I would
describe another difference I noticed. The word popped into my head:
"sunny-er". I never really know songs by name. In fact, I still think of
"Trilogy" as "1", because it is the first track on BN&E. So I was
wondering, isn't the first part called "the Sunlit path"? If in fact it
sounded sunnier, wouldn't that mean that the music is closer to realizing
the intent of the piece? Also, all I could think of in the second part was
the sea. The sounds in the background really remind me of the ocean. What
is the translation of the Part 2 of Trilogy? Is it French? Does it mean
"The Mother of the Sea"? It is kind of and interesting coincidence if it
*does* have something to do with the sea. 3) I have to continue this,
because I don't have the disc here, and I can't rememeber the names or even
the order of the pieces. 4) One last overall observation: It seems like
BN&E is "searching", whereas LTS has "found" the object of the search. Like
BN&E is struggling up the mountain, and LTS is already safe on the other
side. For this reason, the tone of BN&E is more infused with angst,
struggle, almost prayer. The clearest example I already mentioned. The
opening to Trilogy on BN&E to me is the most raw view of someone throwing
themselves to the sky in abandon, just crying out to the
universe--completely open yet asking, almost begging. The tone on this same
part on LTS is so cheery and joyful, as if the searcher has poured into the
object of the search--it is satisfied, content, blissful. For me, my
preferences tend to lean more towards the former. That struggling,
searching feeling is so much more poignant feeling--it is exactly the
feeling that fuels the blues, which I love. I still like the "found,
satisfied" feeling too, but it doesn't move me as much. Ideally, I would
cut and paste the song so that the LTS beginning comes at the END of BN&E.
Then it would seem to tell a complete story.
Kerry
From: "Walter Kolosky" <smsi@attbi.com>
To: "one-word JM mail list" <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
Subject: [OW] LTS: Last Call JMMP#1
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:00:32 -0500
Only a few days left to focus on The Lost Trident Sessions before we pull
another album from the hat. So for those of you still waiting or have some
more things to say, the time is now.
I for one have been very pleased with what the list members have posted.
One thing is for sure, the members of the One-Word list are just not just a
bunch of JM syncophants!
I am looking forward to some more personal stories in the future. LTS was a
hard album to do that with because we all experienced it together here on
list anyway. But, I can't wait to discuss the times or howwe were feeling
during such discoveries as MGB, Birds of Fire etc. The times were very
different.
Regards,
Walter
From: MylaA@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:59:41 EST
Subject: Re: [OW] LTS: Last Call JMMP#1
To: one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk
okay out of lurk mode for a couple of comments:
I agree with most of what has been said: ie: BNE is better, the songs have
a tentative or (dare I say it) dainty quality to them, etc.
LTS should have been a boot. it was not authorized by the band, as far as I
can tell. thus, for a bootleg, its damn good quality.
But it is always nice to hear that great 12 string picking style of JMcL
and there are some nice riffs by Goodman.
Plus, this makes my Sister Andrea collection complete. (I must have 5 or 6
different versions of this now)
now if you excuse me.... I'll go back in the shadows until next time....
From: "P Laplante" <plaplante@tyenet.com>
To: "one word" <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
Subject: [OW] LTS and some Non JM
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:48:13 -0500
Hi All
Just gave the LTS a listen and well it is OK but not my favorite. I found
relistening to it just reinforced the fact that this was the end of MO 1.
They did indeed reach their peak and were only rehashing and reworking the
same ideas. Brilliant as they had been the light was going out on that
inner flame.
The recording technically was fine. Historically, what JM fan wouldn't want
THE LOST RECORDING SESSIONS! So much mystery and anticipation that when you
first listen to it, WOW.
On later listenings I found the album wanting in direction and freshness.
Probably why the Live version is one of my least listened to MO album, but
again what JM (MO1) fan, who had only seen them on TV at midnight, wouldn't
want a live album too?
Now to a different problem. After listening to LTS I choose to listen to
Inner Mounting Flame. Now this is a defining album! It is still fantastic,
anyway I am listening to the Original Master Recording version at, well,
pretty much full volume and I blew both woofers in my Advents. It was nice
but now I have to replace my bass speakers. BTW - these are 25 year old
speakers and the paper probably ready to go anyway. What a glorious way to
go though eh?
Now I am looking for suggestions as to what I should replace the speakers
with. Should I go with the Radio Shack off the shelf 10" woofers or should
I go with some other brand? Should I contact Advent and see what they have
or suggest or just by new speakers?
I know some of you guys are experts in this area because you probably have
done the same thing (or will someday).
Suggestions would be welcome.
Many thanks
Best Regards
Paul
BTW - spent an evening with Nick and Alyssa Naffin in Toronto on the March
break. Very enjoyable and good pizza too. Did get the two Nick Naffin CD's.
Both interesting and highly recommended. Thanks Nick.
The smile you send out returns to you.
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:48:22 +0800
To: <one-word@cs.cf.ac.uk>
From: rasibley@concentric.net (Rod Sibley)
Subject: Re: [OW] LTS notes
Hi Y'all,
Michael Dougan! Howyadoin', Man? I still say that Michael's "Devotion
Revolution" post of Oct.15 '96 should go in the OW Hall of Fame. I'm gonna
repost it (again) when the JMMP gets to "Devotion". Good to see that you're
amongst the living and great to hear from you! Michael wrote:
>There's an old joke about this famous dance duo. "If you think Fred Astaire
>was >a brilliant dancer, just imagine, Ginger Rogers had to do the same thing,
>only >backwards".
Just adding a taste. The way I heard this was: "If you think Fred Astaire
was a brilliant dancer, just imagine; Ginger Rogers had to do the same
steps backward, and do them while wearing high heeled shoes."
That's impressive ;-),
r
src: One-Word Mailing List