The Montreux Box Set MUSIC PROJECT [MBMP] _AT_ONE-WORD

Below you will find the raw (unformatted and unedited, apart from anti-SPAMMING) transcripts of the MBMP carried out on the One-Word Mailing List. Entries are presented in the order that they arrived at One-Word. 


From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:13:28 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: [OW] Montreux Boxset Project


Fellow One-Worders,

Julian brought up the idea to me of running another project for the BOXSET
similiar to the JMMP (John McLaughlin Music Project) we ran a couple of
years ago.

Newer members GO here to read about the JMMP:

http://jma.darwinmonkey.com/jmarc1web/oneword.html

The JMMP is located in the center of the page.


I was going to wait a few weeks to suggest this until everyone who was going
to get the SET would have received it.  (Including myself).  But, I decided
to post now so that those of you on the fence about getting the set would
have an opportunity to pick it up if you wanted to participate in the MBMP
(Montreux Box Music Project).

Here's how it will work.  Those of us participating will listen to two discs
per week, in order from 1-17, and discuss them.  We will delve into ALL
aspects of the particular discs for that week.  This includes the music of
course, but we will also discuss the nature of the world at the time of the
music's creation- we will include personal anecdotes that you may have
experienced that either introduced you to this music or helped you
understand it- i.e. ..... If we are looking at the discs that cover
Shakti...tell us about your first Shakti concert etc.  If you discovered
McLaughlin during Heart of Things, then tell us how that happened while we
are discussing HOT's performance.  Bottom line is that we want to use MBMP
to enhance our understanding of JM's music through the years, but also to
get a better understanding of where we all come to JM's music from-
different ages, countries, cultures etc.  This can be very enlightening and
a lot of fun.

Details:

1)  We will start on Monday of the first week of FEB.  I will remind
everyone on the list every Monday what discs we will be looking at for the
week.  I will create the subject line.

2)  Of course, any one can discuss anything JM at any time on the list.

3)  All MBMP posts must use "MBMP - disc #'s" in the subject line.  Example:
MBMP- Discs 3 + 4

4)  In the case in which a performance is split onto two cds - we will
include the second cd.  So on those weeks, we may discuss 3 cds if it works
out that way.

If the project goes well enough- Julian will consider creating a MBMP
archives on his site that we can refer to later or refer new members to.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please contact me OFF LIST at
walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net

>From all of the comments regarding the Box Set thus far- this looks like it
can be a very interesting and rewarding project!

Regards,

Walter





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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:28:44 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: [OW] MBMP  Announcement


The MBMP officially begins at 12:00 AM Greenwich time on Feb 2 ;-)

My next header will serve as the start of the project.

Due to some email requests, I have decided to change the time frame in which
we will focus on 2 discs at a time (sometimes 3 for continuity.)  Originally
we would spend one week discussing the 2 discs at a time.  We will begin
with a two week window instead.  If it appears that two weeks is too much
time and things start to drag- we will revert to the original 1 week plan.

Regards,

Walter
****************************************************************************
****************************
Walter Kolosky- President of Special Market Services
Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
recovery system.
http://smartidonline.com
****************************************************************************
****************************



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:30:49 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Please use the above header for your comments if you want to join in the
MBMP #1.  (Montreux Box Set Music Project)


Regards,

Walter









****************************************************************************
****************************
Walter Kolosky- President of Special Market Services
Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
recovery system.
http://smartidonline.com
****************************************************************************
****************************



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:28:52 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


I have seen McLaughlin "live" probably about 30 times since I saw the
original Mahavishnu Orchestra.  My biggest regret to this day is not having
seen the MO II.  I had my chance to do so but I let it pass because I
thought the concert, a double-bill with Aerosmith opening up,  was too far
away and that MOII would appear closer soon. It never did L



Montreux discs 1 and 2.:



I love the way McLaughlin is wrestling with the feedback from his guitar
during this concert.  There are clearly moments in which he is trying to use
the feedback to get a certain plaintiff sound, as heard on Apocalypse, but,
there are other times when he is fighting a beast to get it to do what he
wants!  It is an epic battle for power.  Despite the fact the London
Symphony Orchestra wasn't around, this version of MO was able to capture
just as much fullness through most of the concert as on the record.  Sure,
there are sections in which the band quite can't pull all of the muscle
together and it sounds rather thin.  The trumpet solos seem out of place in
the electric mix.  But they do add charm to the music because McLaughlin is
pulling out all the stops as if to say, "so what if we don't have a full
orchestra here.  We are going to try to sound like one even if it might
sound silly from time to time."  That takes balls.



McLaughlin, Ponty and Walden all sound great.  (Although we could all wish
the sound was a little better on these two discs.)  But, the revelation for
me was bassist Ralphe Armstrong.  There is not much of what we could call an
"extended solo" on any of the JM records he appears.  To hear him stretch
out and play was very impressive.  When you throw in the fact that he was
only 17 or 18 years old- WOW!



I have always been hard on the tune "Smile of the Beyond" from Apocalypse.
I found this version to be much more acceptable and I could even understand
what Gayle Moran was singing!



All in all, the first two discs of this historic collection provide ample
evidence that John McLaughlin has always shot for the moon.  There is
nothing too grandiose, bombastic, electric, esoteric or technically
challenging that the man won't tackle.  What a great way to start the MBMP!



Regards,



Walter





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From massimo.morrone_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:19:42 +0100
From: Massimo Morrone 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


"Great Moments" says the header introducing the Montreux Concerts.
Music speaks for itself.
I have listened to discs 1 & 2 last saturday on the way to a gig in 
Florence, loudly on my car stereo.
This is music that can make you dreaming.
Power of love, power of composing. Mc Laughlin's lyrical approach is 
sublime. He's not just a guitarist, he's a great composer too. His music 
has nerve, dynamic, beauty, funk. All these attributes are condensed and 
delivered with care by all members of the band while keeping their 
identities intact.
Jean Luc Ponty can still show his simpathy for Coltrane while soloing 
(one of the few violinists around to do that), Ralphe Armstrong supports 
the rhythm with his strong beat (the great afro-american bass player 
school), Gayle Moran delivers a mix of quasi-trance with her soprano 
voice and accurate moves at the organ drawbars and rhodes piano, Michael 
Walden powerful and inventive drumming is a great source of ispiration 
for any soloist. His solo on 'Smile Of the Beyond' is not a banal one, 
anyway. Innovative the way to break the drum solo with a string section 
ostinato riff. Every detail counts.
Mc Laughlin gets inspired with feedback and overtones blending each 
piece together with grace between furious licks.
After 30 years still a great sophisticated trip.

best
Massimo


-- 
------------------------------------
   http://www.italway.it/morrone/           <>   <> 
------------------------------------          /_                                       
                                        ciao   >   






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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 01:48:09 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Comments on Disc One and Two:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

> I have seen McLaughlin "live" probably about 30 times since I saw the
> original Mahavishnu Orchestra.  My biggest regret to this day is not having
> seen the MO II.

WG:  Walt, I would guess then that you never saw the MO III live either.  That is a shame
to all who missed these groups because  Marks II and III, as they are referred to, were
the ultimate pinnacle of McLaughlin's musical career.  Those Columbia recordings just
cannot begin to do justice to the extreme musical and dynamic range and complexity of the
sound.  The one part of JM's career you DIDN'T want to miss was MII and MIII.


> I had my chance to do so but I let it pass because I
> thought the concert, a double-bill with Aerosmith opening up,  was too far
> away and that MOII would appear closer soon. It never did L

WG:  At least in my area, Apocalypse opened with Roy Buchanan, Visions of the Emerald
Beyond opened with Jeff Beck (who came back out at the end to do duo with JM during On The
Way Home To Earth, and Brian Auger shared billing during the Inner Worlds concert.


> I love the way McLaughlin is wrestling with the feedback from his guitar
> during this concert.  There are clearly moments in which he is trying to use
> the feedback to get a certain plaintiff sound, as heard on Apocalypse, but,
> there are other times when he is fighting a beast to get it to do what he
> wants!  It is an epic battle for power.  Despite the fact the London
> Symphony Orchestra wasn't around, this version of MO was able to capture
> just as much fullness through most of the concert as on the record.  Sure,
> there are sections in which the band quite can't pull all of the muscle
> together and it sounds rather thin.  The trumpet solos seem out of place in
> the electric mix.  But they do add charm to the music because McLaughlin is
> pulling out all the stops as if to say, "so what if we don't have a full
> orchestra here.  We are going to try to sound like one even if it might
> sound silly from time to time."  That takes balls.

WG:  I will stop right here because while Walter is an excellent reviewer and writer and
is someone with considerable and vast musical knowledge and background, he makes the
mistake that so many do in trying to "analyze" the Mahavishnu Orchestra.  The MO was a
*spiritual* experience, not as much a "musical" one.  The music was merely and more so the
vehicle--- a means to an end, not the end itself.  If you didn't get the spiritual
experience from the concert, then the whole thing just passed you by, I'm afraid.  The
idea the JM wrestled, fought, tried to pull together, sounded thin, did something out of
place or risked sounding silly is untenable.  The entire point to the Orchestra was to be
an intrument of the Supreme, in tune with Him, surrendered to His Will.  JM and the
Orchestra put aside their egos and wills, and let the voice and will of the Supreme play
through them.  WHATEVER they did, they tried to do so transparently to their Inner Guide.
That is what made the group so special.  But I knew this years and years before ever
reading any of the interviews with JM, where he reflects back and tries to get this point
across himself in many ways.


> McLaughlin, Ponty and Walden all sound great.  (Although we could all wish
> the sound was a little better on these two discs.)  But, the revelation for
> me was bassist Ralphe Armstrong.  There is not much of what we could call an
> "extended solo" on any of the JM records he appears.  To hear him stretch
> out and play was very impressive.  When you throw in the fact that he was
> only 17 or 18 years old- WOW!

WG:  You had to see him during the Inner Worlds concerts to fully appreciate him.  I still
consider him to be the best bassist of all time.  His playing is so fast on Inner Worlds
that if you didn't see it live, you will have an almost impossible time hearing his speed
and impeccable timing on the recording.

Let me finish by saying that the one time when spirituality shined more brightly than ever
in JM's career was during the Mahavishnu Orchestra.  And that flame grew brighter and more
intense with each album.  During that period, JM had dissolved his own identity and ego---
he was Mahavishnu--- and he was inspired and played solely in sport and tune with the
Divine.  After Eve and he broke up and the MO was disbanded, he continued on with his
spiritual themes and underpinnings, but the man himself, John McLaughlin the artist, the
ego, came to the fore.  Instead of playing entirely of selfless and altruistic reasons, he
has since played more out of personal needs, tastes and pleasures of a more worldly
nature.  Witness the long hair and colorful clothing and then look back at him in the
early '70's--- two entirely different people.  One was a spiritual disciple, the other, an
inspired artist playing more for worldly pleasures (relatively speaking), but doing so
based on the virtues he picked up during his auspicious years with the Orchestra.

Lastly, the years of the Mahavishnu Orchestra were a time of spirituality and spiritual
progress.  Do some research on just what "Mahavishnu" means, but don't use Google, do some
real research--- seek out some bone fide texts like real Vedic literature.  I enjoy the
many discussions and reviews often presented in these forums, but when I read them and it
is all about technique, instrumentation and supposition about implied composition---  and
not a word about the spirituality which was the overriding theme, motive behind and cause
and purpose of the music, I know the author has not yet seen the bigger picture or caught
the true happenings of what went on the night the music played.

WADR,

WayneG






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From gordons_AT_hevanet.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:14:10 -0800
From: Gordon Sheets 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


So, then: How do we explain the clash of egos that went on with MO?  Is that
the Supreme reaching out to us spiritual gnats?  In my humble opinion, I
believe ego is a huge part of any music; including MO, Shakti, Remember
Shakti, etc.  I think JM knows it and is comfortable with it.  I do not
believe that MO was immune to non-spiritual forces like the feedback Walter
refers to in the attached.  (It could be debated that feedback is a
spiritual force.  Any takers?)Furthermore, JM's comfort zone in his studio
and the materialistic aspect of his life (although I don't think Wayne G is
saying it's a bad thing like with Mahareeshi) lends to his freedom to
transcend.  I don't believe he is seeking disciples.

As far as I'm concerned, MO was completely new and still stands on its own:
a genre unto itself and unlike any other.  It gets categorized as fusion by
people like Marsalis, who will probably in his entire lifetime achievement
never make a fraction of the creative leap JM did with MO over 30 years ago.

If I understand one of the things JM is saying on his website, his work has
to do with cultural dynamics.   He also states something to the effect that
he wants to create something completely new.  Bring it on, John!

Gordon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W. Gondella" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


>
> Comments on Disc One and Two:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walter Kolosky" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
>
> > I have seen McLaughlin "live" probably about 30 times since I saw the
> > original Mahavishnu Orchestra.  My biggest regret to this day is not
having
> > seen the MO II.
>
> WG:  Walt, I would guess then that you never saw the MO III live either.
That is a shame
> to all who missed these groups because  Marks II and III, as they are
referred to, were
> the ultimate pinnacle of McLaughlin's musical career.  Those Columbia
recordings just
> cannot begin to do justice to the extreme musical and dynamic range and
complexity of the
> sound.  The one part of JM's career you DIDN'T want to miss was MII and
MIII.
>
>
> > I had my chance to do so but I let it pass because I
> > thought the concert, a double-bill with Aerosmith opening up,  was too
far
> > away and that MOII would appear closer soon. It never did L
>
> WG:  At least in my area, Apocalypse opened with Roy Buchanan, Visions of
the Emerald
> Beyond opened with Jeff Beck (who came back out at the end to do duo with
JM during On The
> Way Home To Earth, and Brian Auger shared billing during the Inner Worlds
concert.
>
>
> > I love the way McLaughlin is wrestling with the feedback from his guitar
> > during this concert.  There are clearly moments in which he is trying to
use
> > the feedback to get a certain plaintiff sound, as heard on Apocalypse,
but,
> > there are other times when he is fighting a beast to get it to do what
he
> > wants!  It is an epic battle for power.  Despite the fact the London
> > Symphony Orchestra wasn't around, this version of MO was able to capture
> > just as much fullness through most of the concert as on the record.
Sure,
> > there are sections in which the band quite can't pull all of the muscle
> > together and it sounds rather thin.  The trumpet solos seem out of place
in
> > the electric mix.  But they do add charm to the music because McLaughlin
is
> > pulling out all the stops as if to say, "so what if we don't have a full
> > orchestra here.  We are going to try to sound like one even if it might
> > sound silly from time to time."  That takes balls.
>
> WG:  I will stop right here because while Walter is an excellent reviewer
and writer and
> is someone with considerable and vast musical knowledge and background, he
makes the
> mistake that so many do in trying to "analyze" the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
The MO was a
> *spiritual* experience, not as much a "musical" one.  The music was merely
and more so the
> vehicle--- a means to an end, not the end itself.  If you didn't get the
spiritual
> experience from the concert, then the whole thing just passed you by, I'm
afraid.  The
> idea the JM wrestled, fought, tried to pull together, sounded thin, did
something out of
> place or risked sounding silly is untenable.  The entire point to the
Orchestra was to be
> an intrument of the Supreme, in tune with Him, surrendered to His Will.
JM and the
> Orchestra put aside their egos and wills, and let the voice and will of
the Supreme play
> through them.  WHATEVER they did, they tried to do so transparently to
their Inner Guide.
> That is what made the group so special.  But I knew this years and years
before ever
> reading any of the interviews with JM, where he reflects back and tries to
get this point
> across himself in many ways.
>
>
> > McLaughlin, Ponty and Walden all sound great.  (Although we could all
wish
> > the sound was a little better on these two discs.)  But, the revelation
for
> > me was bassist Ralphe Armstrong.  There is not much of what we could
call an
> > "extended solo" on any of the JM records he appears.  To hear him
stretch
> > out and play was very impressive.  When you throw in the fact that he
was
> > only 17 or 18 years old- WOW!
>
> WG:  You had to see him during the Inner Worlds concerts to fully
appreciate him.  I still
> consider him to be the best bassist of all time.  His playing is so fast
on Inner Worlds
> that if you didn't see it live, you will have an almost impossible time
hearing his speed
> and impeccable timing on the recording.
>
> Let me finish by saying that the one time when spirituality shined more
brightly than ever
> in JM's career was during the Mahavishnu Orchestra.  And that flame grew
brighter and more
> intense with each album.  During that period, JM had dissolved his own
identity and ego---
> he was Mahavishnu--- and he was inspired and played solely in sport and
tune with the
> Divine.  After Eve and he broke up and the MO was disbanded, he continued
on with his
> spiritual themes and underpinnings, but the man himself, John McLaughlin
the artist, the
> ego, came to the fore.  Instead of playing entirely of selfless and
altruistic reasons, he
> has since played more out of personal needs, tastes and pleasures of a
more worldly
> nature.  Witness the long hair and colorful clothing and then look back at
him in the
> early '70's--- two entirely different people.  One was a spiritual
disciple, the other, an
> inspired artist playing more for worldly pleasures (relatively speaking),
but doing so
> based on the virtues he picked up during his auspicious years with the
Orchestra.
>
> Lastly, the years of the Mahavishnu Orchestra were a time of spirituality
and spiritual
> progress.  Do some research on just what "Mahavishnu" means, but don't use
Google, do some
> real research--- seek out some bone fide texts like real Vedic literature.
I enjoy the
> many discussions and reviews often presented in these forums, but when I
read them and it
> is all about technique, instrumentation and supposition about implied
composition---  and
> not a word about the spirituality which was the overriding theme, motive
behind and cause
> and purpose of the music, I know the author has not yet seen the bigger
picture or caught
> the true happenings of what went on the night the music played.
>
> WADR,
>
> WayneG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe one-word" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
> For other info send word "help" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
>



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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 04:05:39 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Sheets" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


>
> So, then: How do we explain the clash of egos that went on with MO?  Is that
> the Supreme reaching out to us spiritual gnats?

No, not at all, Gordon.  When you let the ego melt away, you become more receptive to a
higher Self.  When you see yourself as an individual, you are looking from an egocentric
viewpoint.  In MOI, no one other than JM was really involved in the spiritual side of the
band, ie: Sri Chinmoy.  With MOII (in particular) and MOIII, there was more involvement
with that.  However, the clash of egos you refer to mostly happened between members of
MOI, and during the day-to-day interactions off stage.  Less so while actually performing.
When they got along and there was harmony and less ego to impede, the Supreme came through
and the music was great.  When egos got involved, the music suffered, and ultimately
brought about creation of a new and better band.

WG



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From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:39:58 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: "one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk" 
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

Apocalypse had among its qualities qualities the distinctive style of
composition of john: what I find and think is a great capacity to build a
center of interest which is also pathos, a highest point of
intensity, built in crescendo starting at the beginning from just
innuendo and rythmic hints, but this style of composition is akin to the
best excerpts of dramatic writing in literature or in the cinema.
 
I liked the intro theme of the studio work: acoustic sweetness of the
nylon strings on a bead of notes, essential notes by the piano,
melodic line of the violin sectin,  of "Power of Love", followed then by 
the orchestra on a building of intensity based on the repetion of a
crescendo line and six-note arpeggio, that has to have resonance. The
music of john has to be like a rosary bead: all parts are so cleverly
interwowen and tied together with meaning, in the prayer and statement.
Moments of joy and hope come suddenly in, reflected by the playing that
follows some meditation. It's not like thinking simply on musical
patterns, it's a meditation and reflection on how you/he conceives
musical beauty and his particular semantics and synthesis of music today.
(that's why he's the best composer and musician of today's music :-) lol
 
Disc 1 -  At Montreux year 1974, the orchestra wasn't there, it
was replaced by a horn-section, which does a wonderful work, a very good
one. Jean-Luc Ponty is full of good taste, the interesting building of
the intro of "Power Of Love" is absolutely respected and creates that
swelling of joy, coming from the repetition, and the contrapunctual
tissue of all instruments, in a multi-voiced Canto that is absolutely
charming and overwhelming, and concludes on a progressive return to
silence.
 
"Wings of Karma" is nothing you can conceive just thinking jazz and
patterns. But thinking of creating the right pitch of interest with what
best the musical tradition has to give , and making the most of what a
musician of the modern secne can give: Michael Walden 's clever
and powerful  drumming, the bass of Ralph Armstrong encapturing  John's
style with the finest taste of playing.
 
 "Smile of the beyond" is beautifully sung interpreted by Gayle Moran, as
it already was in the studio.
 
Disc 2 - it's incredible how all managed to keep the beauty of the studio
album in a live environment. The reason is the pregnant quality of the
music, respected and perfectly interpreted by all involved.
 
It's a great document, disc 1 and 2, on MO2
 
Claudio
 
  
_______________________________________________________________________________
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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:39:49 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


W. Gondella said:

> Lastly, the years of the Mahavishnu Orchestra were a time of spirituality
and spiritual
> progress.  Do some research on just what "Mahavishnu" means, but don't use
Google, do some
> real research--- seek out some bone fide texts like real Vedic literature.
I enjoy the
> many discussions and reviews often presented in these forums, but when I
read them and it
> is all about technique, instrumentation and supposition about implied
composition---  and
> not a word about the spirituality which was the overriding theme, motive
behind and cause
> and purpose of the music, I know the author has not yet seen the bigger
picture or caught
> the true happenings of what went on the night the music played.

Wayne, I thought you had stopped doing this.  Is it so difficult for you
just to describe what the music means to you without criticizing anyone
else's view in a condescending personal way?  I am well aware of the
spiritual aspects of the music and was aware of them at the time.  I don't
dismiss them at all.  But I am not writing a book.  I can not include every
aspect of the music.  I can only present my view. The view you want me to
express implies that John can never make a mistake.  John McLaughlin is my
favorite musiican and I love his music dearly.  But religious motives or
not- he makes mistakes.  I think he makes mistakes because he strives.  We
do not live in a world of perfection.  It would be so boring if we did.  I
think if you have read all of what I have written about JM over the years-
you will see that I do make references to "inner peace", "bliss" etc.  It
was surely a major component for JM- it was a component for me as a listener
as well- but not certainly to the same degree as its creator.  Is that so
hard to understand?  Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.  I
don't do that to you.

Regards,

Walter




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From j.haidenbauer_AT_fz-juelich.de Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:43:30 +0100
From: Johann Haidenbauer 
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Am Dienstag, 3. Februar 2004 07:48 schrieb W. Gondella:
> Comments on Disc One and Two:

> WG:  I will stop right here because while Walter is an excellent reviewer
> and writer and is someone with considerable and vast musical knowledge and
> background, he makes the mistake that so many do in trying to "analyze" the
> Mahavishnu Orchestra.  The MO was a *spiritual* experience, not as much a
> "musical" one.  The music was merely and more so the vehicle--- a means to
> an end, not the end itself.  If you didn't get the spiritual experience
> from the concert, then the whole thing just passed you by, I'm afraid.  The
> idea the JM wrestled, fought, tried to pull together, sounded thin, did
> something out of place or risked sounding silly is untenable.  The entire
> point to the Orchestra was to be an intrument of the Supreme, in tune with
> Him, surrendered to His Will.  JM and the Orchestra put aside their egos
> and wills, and let the voice and will of the Supreme play through them. 
> WHATEVER they did, they tried to do so transparently to their Inner Guide.
> That is what made the group so special.  But I knew this years and years
> before ever reading any of the interviews with JM, where he reflects back
> and tries to get this point across himself in many ways.

 I am not sure whether I get your point here. But let's assume that we go to
a pizzera. The perception of that event will differ quite significantly from 
the point of view of the cook and from my side. After all we have quite 
different aims. The cook might want to satisfy his boss whereas I want to
satisfy my stomach. And if I discuss lateron what was good or wrong with
the pizza I don't need to know what was going on in the mind of the cook
when he made it. 

                                                                        Johann



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From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:59:46 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: "one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk" 
Subject: Re: [OW]  MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

Apocalypse had among its qualities  the distinctive JML's style of
composition : what I find and think is a great capacity to build a center
of interest which is also pathos, a highest point of intensity, built in
crescendo starting at the beginning from just innuendo and rythmic hints,
but this style of composition is akin to the best excerpts of dramatic
writing in literature or the cinema.
 
I liked the intro theme of the studio work: acoustic sweetness of the
nylon strings on a bead of notes, essential notes by the piano,
melodic line played by the violin sectin,  in "Power of Love", followed
then by  the orchestra on a building of intensity based on the repetion
of a crescendo line and six-note arpeggio, that creates resonance. The
music of John has to be like a rosary bead: all parts are so cleverly
interwowen and tied together with meaning, in the prayer and statements.
Moments of joy and hope come suddenly in, reflected by the playing that
follows some meditation. It's not like thinking simply on musical
patterns, it's a meditation and reflection on how you/he conceives
musical beauty and his particular semantics and synthesis of the music
today. (that's why he's this Century best composer and musician   :-) 
 
Disc 1 -  At Montreux year 1974, the orchestra wasn't there, it
was replaced by a horn-section, which does a wonderful work, a very good
one. Jean-Luc Ponty is full of good taste; the interesting building 
intro of "Power Of Love" is absolutely respected and creates that
swelling of joy, coming from the repetition, and the contrapunctual
tissue of all instruments, in a multi-voiced "Canto" that is absolutely
charming, overwhelming, which mutes progressively to silence.
 
"Wings of Karma" is nothing you can conceive just thinking jazz and
patterns. But by thinking and creating the right pitch of interest with
what best the musical tradition can give , and making the most of what a
musician of the modern scene has to give: Michael Walden 's clever
and powerful  drumming,  Ralph Armstrong's bass  encapturing John's
style with the finest taste in playing.
 
 "Smile of the beyond" is beautifully sung interpreted by Gayle Moran, as
it already was in the studio.
 
Disc 2 - it's incredible how all managed to keep the beauty of the studio
album in a live environment. The reason is the pregnant quality of the
music, respected and perfectly interpreted by all involved.
 
It's a great document, disc 1 and 2, on MO2
 
Cheers, Claudio
 
  
_______________________________________________________________________________
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evoluto - Clicca Qui

    [ Part 2, Image/GIF  678bytes. ]

    [ Unable to print this part. ]


From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:10:54 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

Apocalypse had among its qualities  the distinctive JML's style of
composition : what I find and think is a great capacity to build a center
of interest which is also pathos, a highest point of intensity, built in
crescendo starting at the beginning from just innuendo and rythmic hints,
but this style of composition is akin to the best excerpts of dramatic
writing in literature or the cinema.
 
I liked the intro theme of the studio work: acoustic sweetness of the
nylon strings on a bead of notes, essential notes by the piano,
melodic line played by the violin sectin,  in "Power of Love", followed
then by  the orchestra on a building of intensity based on the on
a crescendo of a repeated six-note arpeggio, that creates resonance. The
music of John makes me think it has to be like some prayer on a rosary
bead be it zen: all parts are so cleverly interwowen and tied together
with meaning, in the prayer and statements. Moments of joy and hope come
suddenly in, reflected by the playing that follows some meditation. It's
not like thinking simply on musical patterns, it's a meditation and
reflection on how you/he conceives musical beauty and his particular
semantics and synthesis of the music today. (that's why he's this
century best composer and musician   :-) 
 
Disc 1 -  At Montreux year 1974, the orchestra wasn't there, it
was replaced by a horn-section, which does a wonderful work, a very good
one. Jean-Luc Ponty is full of good taste; the interesting  intro of
"Power Of Love" is absolutely respected and creates that swelling of joy,
coming from the repetition, and the contrapunctual tissue of all
instruments, in a multi-voiced "Canto" that is absolutely charming,
overwhelming, which mutes progressively to silence.
 
"Wings of Karma" is nothing you can conceive just thinking jazz and
patterns. But by thinking and creating the right pitch of interest with
what best the musical tradition can give , and making the most of what a
musician of the modern scene has to give: Michael Walden 's clever
and powerful  drumming,  Ralph Armstrong's bass  encapturing John's
style with the finest taste in playing.
 
 "Smile of the beyond" is beautifully sung interpreted by Gayle Moran, as
it already was in the studio.
 
Disc 2 - it's incredible how all managed to keep the beauty of the studio
album in a live environment. The reason is the pregnant quality of the
music, respected and perfectly interpreted by all involved.
 
It's a great document, disc 1 and 2, on MO2
 
Cheers, Claudio
 
  
_______________________________________________________________________________
[IMAGE]  IncrediMail - il mondo della posta elettronica si è finalmente
evoluto - Clicca Qui

    [ Part 2, Image/GIF  678bytes. ]

    [ Unable to print this part. ]


From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:46:46 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: "one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk" 
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

"Apocalypse" had among its qualities JML's original style of composition
: what I find and think is a great capacity to build a center of interest
which is also a moment of pathos, or highest point of intensity, built in
crescendo starting sometimes from simple but efficient rythmic hints, and
this style of composition is akin to the best excerpts of dramatic
writing in literature, and maybe the best pages of cinema.
 
I liked the intro theme of the studio work: acoustic sweetness of the
nylon strings on a bead of notes, essential notes by the piano,
melodic line played by the violin sectin,  in "Power of Love", followed
then by  the orchestra on a building of intensity based on the on
a crescendo of a repeated six-note arpeggio, that creates resonance. The
music of John makes me think it has to be like some prayer on a rosary
bead be it zen: all parts are so cleverly interwowen and tied together
with meaning, in the prayer and statements. Moments of joy and hope come
suddenly in, reflected by the playing that follows some meditation. It's
not like thinking simply on standard patterns, it's a meditation and
reflection on how you/he conceives musical beauty and his particular
semantics and synthesis of the music today. (that's why John's this
century best composer and musician   :-))
 
Disc 1 -  At Montreux year 1974, the orchestra wasn't there, it
was replaced by a horn-section, which does a wonderful work, a very good
one. Jean-Luc Ponty is full of good taste; the interesting  intro of
"Power Of Love" is absolutely respected and creates that swelling of joy,
coming from the repetition, and the contrapunctual tissue of all
instruments, in a multi-voiced "Canto" that is absolutely charming,
overwhelming, which mutes progressively to silence.
 
"Wings of Karma" is nothing you can conceive just thinking jazz and
patterns. But by thinking of and creating the right pitch of interest
with what best the musical tradition can give , and getting the most of
what a musician of the modern scene can give: Michael Walden 's clever
and powerful drumming,  Ralph Armstrong's bass  encapturing John's
style with the finest taste.
 
 "Smile of the beyond" is beautifully sung interpreted by Gayle Moran, as
it already was in the studio.
 
Disc 2 - it's incredible how all managed to keep the beauty of the studio
album in a live environment. The reason is the quality of the music,
perfectly reproduced by all involved.
 
 Great docos, discs 1 and 2, on MO2
 
Cheers, Claudio
 
  
_______________________________________________________________________________
[IMAGE]  IncrediMail - il mondo della posta elettronica si è finalmente
evoluto - Clicca Qui

    [ Part 2, Image/GIF  678bytes. ]

    [ Unable to print this part. ]


From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:50:10 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Rif: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

 
 
-------Messaggio originale-------
 
Da: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Data: 02/03/04 08:09:40
A: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Oggetto: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
 
Comments on Disc One and Two:
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
 
 
"Apocalypse" had among the numerous qualities JML's original style of
composition : what I find and think is a great capacity to build a center
of interest which is also a moment of pathos, or highest point of
intensity, built in crescendo starting sometimes from simple but
efficient rythmic hints, and this style of composition is akin to the
best excerpts of dramatic writing in literature, and maybe the best pages
of cinema.
 
I liked the intro theme of the studio work: acoustic sweetness of the
nylon strings on a bead of notes, essential notes by the piano,
melodic line played by the violin sectin,  in "Power of Love", followed
then by  the orchestra on a building of intensity based on the on
a crescendo of a repeated six-note arpeggio, that creates resonance. The
music of John makes me think it has to be like some prayer on a rosary
bead be it zen: all parts are so cleverly interwowen and tied together
with meaning, in the prayer and statements. Moments of joy and hope come
suddenly in, reflected by the playing that follows some meditation. It's
not like thinking simply on standard patterns, it's a meditation and
reflection on how you/he conceives musical beauty and his particular
semantics and synthesis of the music today. (that's why John's this
century best composer and musician   :-))
 
Disc 1 -  At Montreux year 1974, the orchestra wasn't there, it
was replaced by a horn-section, which does a wonderful work, a very good
one. Jean-Luc Ponty is full of good taste; the interesting  intro of
"Power Of Love" is absolutely respected and creates that swelling of joy,
coming from the repetition, and the contrapunctual tissue of all
instruments, in a multi-voiced "Canto" that is absolutely charming,
overwhelming, which mutes progressively to silence.
 
"Wings of Karma" is nothing you can conceive just thinking jazz and
patterns. But by thinking of and creating the right pitch of interest
with what best the musical tradition can give , and getting the most of
what a musician of the modern scene can give: Michael Walden 's clever
and powerful drumming,  Ralph Armstrong's bass  encapturing John's
style with the finest taste.
 
 "Smile of the beyond" is beautifully sung interpreted by Gayle Moran, as
it already was in the studio.
 
Disc 2 - it's incredible how all managed to keep the beauty of the studio
album in a live environment. The reason is the quality of the music,
perfectly reproduced by all involved.
 
 Great docos, discs 1 and 2, on MO2
 
Cheers, Claudio
_______________________________________________________________________________
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evoluto - Clicca Qui

    [ Part 2, Image/GIF  678bytes. ]

    [ Unable to print this part. ]


From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:02:31 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> Wayne, I thought you had stopped doing this.  Is it so difficult for you
> just to describe what the music means to you without criticizing anyone
> else's view in a condescending personal way?  I am well aware of the
> spiritual aspects of the music and was aware of them at the time.  I don't
> dismiss them at all.  But I am not writing a book.  I can not include every
> aspect of the music.  I can only present my view. The view you want me to
> express implies that John can never make a mistake.  John McLaughlin is my
> favorite musiican and I love his music dearly.  But religious motives or
> not- he makes mistakes.  I think he makes mistakes because he strives.  We
> do not live in a world of perfection.  It would be so boring if we did.  I
> think if you have read all of what I have written about JM over the years-
> you will see that I do make references to "inner peace", "bliss" etc.  It
> was surely a major component for JM- it was a component for me as a listener
> as well- but not certainly to the same degree as its creator.  Is that so
> hard to understand?  Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.  I
> don't do that to you.

Walt,

I actually paid you several big compliments guy, c'mon.  All I said of anyone writing
"reports" on their impressions of the music is that if the spiritual aspect of the music
is not in some way at least touched upon, then I don't think--- or at least wonder--- if
the listener has captured everything, certainly not the most important aspect of the
music, IMHO.  I thought that was worth pointing out Walter.  While some of that indirectly
referred to you in a way, it was not directed solely at you--- that was just your
over-sensitiveness I think, coming into play perhaps.  Nothing I said was meant other than
in a helpful spirit to get folks to think more about the abstract side of the music,
certainly not "condescending" or "criticizing".  But it seems that when anyone merely
disagrees with you or tries to add further, you often take offense and exception.

It doesn't take a book to talk about these things, I certainly have spoken a great deal
about it and I write far less than you about music.  Saying you are not writing a book or
cannot include *every* aspect of the music sounds like more of a cope out to me, sorry.
The spiritual aspect is like an ocean and the rest is like a thimble of water, and if
someone understands that spiritual aspect they would not only see this, but would dwell
upon that more so than the other things, I think.  But you write nothing of the former
that I have ever seen.  I'm not trying to pick on you Walter, you are just coming up
because I am replying to you and you wrote the last review that started this thread.  That
is either intentional then as maybe you want a broader appeal to your writings for people
who do not necessarily subscribe to those ideas or you really just don't get into the
spirirtual aspects to any real degree enough to seriously discuss them like I would hope.
If I am wrong, then I apologize.  Please use this opportunity to give a detailed account
of any spiritual aspects you saw or experienced while listening to the music.  I'd love to
read that over much of the totally off-topic stuff that has been floating around on this
forum recently.

For a forum dedicated to JM, there is shockingly little said here about the spiritual
aspects of the music anyway, other than in the most vague and diffuse passing ways,
usually.  The argument that "we talked about that 5 years ago" is a rather silly statement
isn't it, made in the past, like the subject is worn out, not to mention that there are
new people joining (hopefully) all of the time, who weren't around to read it then.

The "view" that I want you to express is NOT that JM never makes mistakes--- first, I
never said a word about mistakes or "perfection," at all, and I have no particular view
that I expect from you or anyone. That is just more stuff you have read between the lines.
But just how does anyone determine what was a "mistake" anyway, in so complex a music.
Mistakes are like buoys bobbing on the ocean, they are so superficial compared to what
lies underneath.  Wasn't there the fellow who played the music slowed down just to find
and analyze mistakes?  :-\    I find that so trivial.  It was mentioned that you could
finally understand the lyrics of Ms. Moran during Smile...  I listened to Smile for years
and years actually without ever having a clue to much of what she was saying, and you know
what?  It didn't matter one bit.  The music for me happens on a plane far beyond the
notes, chords, vocals, recording quality, loudspeakers or ears, not that they are not
relevant, too.  But I never even particularly worried about the lyrics that I couldn't
make out.  You either understand that or you don't.

If you (anyone) wants to discuss the music, please also *if you can* talk about how
certain notes or chords in the songs, are sympathetic to OM or to the 4th or 5th chaktra
(vibrational seat of energy along the spine), or even the 6th and 7th, or any epiphanies
you experienced while hearing the flailing trumpet ripping through the opening moments of
the live version of Smile, for instance.  Tell me of your out of body experience where the
music took you on a journey speeding along the astral plane to where you maybe again saw
long lost loved ones, or cried profusely with tears at the enormous joy and profound
ecstasy you felt at the culmination of Hymn To Him and how you then made a new inner pact
with God to work harder and strive harder to perfect your inner life in trying to know and
reach Him.  Tell me you went back and bought the sixth canto- part two of the Srimad
Bhagavatam in order to read first hand, just what the heck "Mahavishnu" is and means, in
the first place, so you have a real idea what the music is really all about.  If someone
can speak about such things and others, I'd love to hear more.

Tell me such things, and I'll be enraptured to your writing.  You will be a better expert
to not only the form of the music, but to the substance.  Please tell me that such a
person exists out there and gets into the music that deeply.  But if you reading this do
not, and few do for certain, then please understand that this is also fine.  I'm not
trying to put anyone down, certainly not Walt or anyone else---  I am merely pointing out
to the group that there is A LOT MORE to the music than is generally discussed.  I am
trying to encourage those interested and intrigued to try to explore and look deeper for
that meaning.

Anyone can listen to, write about or get whatever they get out of the music.  That is
certain.  I'm not here to censor or criticize anyone--- it's a free world after all.  And
I enjoy reading everything people have to say about it.  Recently, a number of people have
written some very inspired comments on what they heard in the music.  But NO ONE writes
much about any of the above.  So, if anyone can, I'd like to hear about that too--- you
won't bore me I assure you.  But when things such as those I mentioned (and many others)
are NEVER discussed, it makes me wonder if anyone is really getting it out there---  that
ocean, that is really Mahavishnu.  Or are they just too inhibited to talk about it openly
on this forum for some reason.  What I read of late is only the surface, the thimble of
water.  Or worse, it isn't even much on topic.

So criticize, condescend?  No, not at all Walter.   But it took a lot of my time and
trouble to write this, so I hope I am getting through to a few people out there.  I'm only
saying that if you or anyone has more to say, I know that I and many others on the group
would like to hear about it.  Write a book?--- naw--- you don't have to do that at all.
But I'm not going anywhere, I have time and will gladly listen to it, whether I understand
or agree with it or not.  This forum is what we define it as, and I am asking, are we
going to define it about John McLaughlin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra without any real
discourse on the spirituality that is the main, overriding theme of the man and the music?
I KNOW there are many people of this list who do want to hear more.  Many have told me so
privately.  And I certainly hope we are all mature enough that such things can be
discussed without cruel, snide remarks.

Someone want to tell me now that I am way too deep?  That's OK too.  I've gotten that all
of my life.  I'm used to it.  :)

My only purport was to say that we are ignoring the vast and most important aspect of the
music, not to criticize, but if that is the way you took it, all I can say is that you
need to go back and reread what I did write and intend.

Regards,

WayneG



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:39:51 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


In regards to everything Wayne said in his last response:

Wayne, I think when you wrote the following directed at me (And I am not
paranoid, others will agree)- that you were condescending:

 "I know the author has not yet seen the bigger picture or caught
the true happenings of what went on the night the music played."

"If you didn't get the spiritual
experience from the concert, then the whole thing just passed you by, I'm
afraid.  The
idea the JM wrestled, fought, tried to pull together, sounded thin, did
something out of
place or risked sounding silly is untenable. "


I have absolutely no problem with your posts or your ideas.  I don't  mind
you disagreeing with my views.  In fact, that is what discussion is all
about on the list.  And further in fact, I agree with many of your posts.  I
just wish you wouldn't personalize them in a negative way when you feel
differently from someone else.  That is all.

You can say..."I disagree with Walter (or whoever)"  "I can't agree
with"..."My view is different than Walter's (whoever)"....I see things
differently etc. instead of  inferring with language like above that people
" don't understand" or "don't grasp" or etc.  That is condescending.  So
please, state your views all you want, but don't tell us we don't understand
them.

The MBMP is for us all to learn how we all approach John's music.

So now, let's move on...

The first several contributions have been very interesting and informative.

Regards,

Walter

.









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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:38:57 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

Claudio,
 
Very interesting reading and interpretation.  Your writing invoked
many colorful and animated images of a music alive, growing, changing and
reaching for more.
 
WG
 
 
      ----- Original Message -----
From: Claudio
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

 
Apocalypse had among its qualities qualities the distinctive style
of composition of john: what I find and think is a great capacity
to build a center of interest which is also pathos, a highest point
of intensity, built in crescendo starting at the beginning from
just innuendo and rythmic hints, but this style of composition
is akin to the best excerpts of dramatic writing in literature or
in the cinema.
 
I liked the intro theme of the studio work: acoustic sweetness of
the nylon strings on a bead of notes, essential notes by the piano,
melodic line of the violin sectin,  of "Power of Love", followed
then by  the orchestra on a building of intensity based on the
repetion of a crescendo line and six-note arpeggio, that has to
have resonance. The music of john has to be like a rosary bead: all
parts are so cleverly interwowen and tied together with meaning, in
the prayer and statement. Moments of joy and hope come suddenly in,
reflected by the playing that follows some meditation. It's not
like thinking simply on musical patterns, it's a meditation and
reflection on how you/he conceives musical beauty and his
particular semantics and synthesis of music today. (that's why he's
the best composer and musician of today's music :-) lol
 
Disc 1 -  At Montreux year 1974, the orchestra wasn't there, it
was replaced by a horn-section, which does a wonderful work, a very
good one. Jean-Luc Ponty is full of good taste, the interesting
building of the intro of "Power Of Love" is absolutely respected
and creates that swelling of joy, coming from the repetition, and
the contrapunctual tissue of all instruments, in a multi-voiced
Canto that is absolutely charming and overwhelming, and concludes
on a progressive return to silence.
 
"Wings of Karma" is nothing you can conceive just thinking jazz and
patterns. But thinking of creating the right pitch of interest with
what best the musical tradition has to give , and making the most
of what a musician of the modern secne can give: Michael Walden 's
clever and powerful  drumming, the bass of Ralph
Armstrong encapturing  John's style with the finest taste of
playing.
 
 "Smile of the beyond" is beautifully sung interpreted by Gayle
Moran, as it already was in the studio.
 
Disc 2 - it's incredible how all managed to keep the beauty of the
studio album in a live environment. The reason is the pregnant
quality of the music, respected and perfectly interpreted by all
involved.
 
It's a great document, disc 1 and 2, on MO2
 
Claudio
 
  



From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:05:02 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> You can say..."I disagree with Walter (or whoever)"  "I can't agree
> with"..."My view is different than Walter's (whoever)"....I see things
> differently etc. instead of  inferring with language like above that people
> " don't understand" or "don't grasp" or etc.  That is condescending.  So
> please, state your views all you want, but don't tell us we don't understand
> them.


So Walt, you mean this all comes down to semantics?  That's what you are bothered by?
Again, I said I almost never read anyone writing about this and that.  I never said once
that you (plural:  we, as in a whole group) do not understand anything.  I am neither so
vain or that conceited that I would pose myself as some big expert on anything, or
everything, and the rest all a bunch of stupid people.  There are certainly more than a
few here who are smarter than I.  But I do sometimes wonder if anyone or many do get or
value some of this stuff because I seldom see hints of it in the postings.


So how about this:  (As always implied) IMHO, while I agree with a lot of what Walter
wrote and writes, I do not feel he took in the whole picture, as I saw it, because it is
something vast and large and important (at least to me) which I just don't see him writing
about.

I hope that passes muster with you.

But then, if your objection is that you do get the big picture, the ocean I referred to,
and I am short-changing you by implying otherwise, then why all the smoke screen revolving
around this ego bull?  Why not just TALK about it and show me that you DO get that big
picture instead of ranting about how people are dissing you just because they don't think
that you are maybe touching base with the music at every important level?  It is not a
crime whether you do or you don't.  But since you have a lot of *public exposure* and your
words are taken seriously, and are looked upon by many in the group here as an expert and
authority, I just thought that if these other spiritual aspects are anywhere near as
relevant to your listening experience as they are for me, you could say something about
them once in a while--- who knows---  we might learn something from that.

That's all I gotta say about this, unless you still got a bone to pick.

WG



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From gordons_AT_hevanet.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:04:36 -0800
From: Gordon Sheets 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)




>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon Sheets" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 3:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

>
> >
> > So, then: How do we explain the clash of egos that went on with MO?  Is
that
> > the Supreme reaching out to us spiritual gnats?
>
> No, not at all, Gordon.  When you let the ego melt away, you become more
receptive to a
> higher Self.  When you see yourself as an individual, you are looking from
an egocentric
> viewpoint.  In MOI, no one other than JM was really involved in the
spiritual side of the
> band, ie: Sri Chinmoy.  With MOII (in particular) and MOIII, there was
more involvement
> with that.  However, the clash of egos you refer to mostly happened
between members of
> MOI, and during the day-to-day interactions off stage.  Less so while
actually performing.
> When they got along and there was harmony and less ego to impede, the
Supreme came through
> and the music was great.  When egos got involved, the music suffered, and
ultimately
> brought about creation of a new and better band.
>
> WG

Hi, Wayne:

I believe I understand what you are saying about MO performances.  But, we
may have a different concept of ego.  I see the "ego melt away" thing you
refer to as a diminution of the selfish, but not a relinquishment of ego.
Ego does not go away, it just gets out of the way.  However, it's still ego,
and nothing great gets accomplished without an acceptance of ego.

I struggle with the whole "spiritual" perspective on a daily basis.  It just
doesn't cut it for me, and I am weary of all the push from all the different
spiritualists in all their different flavors.  It gets overstated.  I am not
saying you and other people who choose to invoke spirituality are wrong: I'm
saying I don't get it and don't feel it's accurate or necessary.  From my
point of view, great events such as MO are the highest common denominator of
human achievement and aspiration (underscore human!).  I rejoice that I am
alive and here to partake of the experience.  I think I need go no further
than this, that it is more than enough, and that there is no reason for me
to take a leap of faith toward the Emerald Beyond.  I also do not think my
lack of spiritual convincing in any way detracts from my enjoyment or
comprehension of the music, nor does it invalidate my understanding.

Maybe I misunderstand JM, but I feel he recognizes his humanity first and
his direction from there is his own choice.  That's what I meant when I was
referring to him not looking for disciples.

There are many other threads on this - one in particular from Johann
Haidenbauer - that all have good points.  It's a good discussion.

Thanks,

Gordon





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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 01:58:46 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1  Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Hi Gordon, thanks for writing.  See comments below:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Sheets" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> I struggle with the whole "spiritual" perspective on a daily basis.  It just
> doesn't cut it for me, and I am weary of all the push from all the different
> spiritualists in all their different flavors.  It gets overstated.  I am not
> saying you and other people who choose to invoke spirituality are wrong: I'm
> saying I don't get it and don't feel it's accurate or necessary.  From my
> point of view, great events such as MO are the highest common denominator of
> human achievement and aspiration (underscore human!).  I rejoice that I am
> alive and here to partake of the experience.  I think I need go no further
> than this, that it is more than enough, and that there is no reason for me
> to take a leap of faith toward the Emerald Beyond.  I also do not think my
> lack of spiritual convincing in any way detracts from my enjoyment or
> comprehension of the music, nor does it invalidate my understanding.

WG:  I fully understand your position and appreciate it.  If that is what is working for
you and makes sense to you, then you should absolutely not worry about anything else.  And
I agree that too many religions push their faith as being the only way, when in fact there
are many paths.  Isn't this sort of the problem with the Middle East and 9/11?  Our way or
the highway?  Intolerance for differing viewpoints?   Even atheism and the impersonal view
of the universe is a path.  And there is nothing at all wrong in believing in human
achievement!  :-)


> I believe I understand what you are saying about MO performances.  But, we
> may have a different concept of ego.  I see the "ego melt away" thing you
> refer to as a diminution of the selfish, but not a relinquishment of ego.
> Ego does not go away, it just gets out of the way.  However, it's still ego,
> and nothing great gets accomplished without an acceptance of ego.

WG:   To clarify, from the spiritual perspective (at least from Vedic Science, which is
what I know), the "melting away of the ego" does not mean to be less selfish, it means to
be free of ego.  The term "ego" is understood to mean seeing oneself as *seperate* from
God.  Ego means "I", which is that which is born and dies, the physical, the temporal, not
the spiritual which is everlasting.  The term "surrender" is understood to mean to
dissolve (through various means:  meditation, prayer, contemplation, concentration, yogic
power) one's seperate identity from the Lord and become one again with Him.  Such
seperateness is considered an illusion, brought about by material conditioning, known as
Maya.  In this persective, ego definitely does go away.  Also, in the purely spiritual
perspective, nothing great ever gets accomplished *with* ego.  :)  I know, a difficult
concept, and one that can seem threatening (especially to the ego!  :)

It is my contention that JM threw off his ego and became one with the Supreme during his
most inspired and great moments of fantastic playing in the MO, a view which he reiterates
many times during his various interviews.  I believe he still does this to some degree to
this day, but perhaps to not quite the same extent.

The idea is that there is a spark of the Supreme in each one of us, and that once removed,
the ego, which makes us feel seperate from the Supreme,  this inner spark of divinity is
able to come to the fore and be seen and felt.  This is the Vedic understanding.

And speaking purely from personal experience, I can tell the reader that I have seen the
ego go away.  I literally stopped being me for a few seconds and was (for lack of a better
term) pure consciousness and bliss.  I know--- it sounds corny (but hopefully not
megalomaniac).  After a few seconds, I slipped back into thinking "here *I* am doing this,
and experiencing this!"---  and immediately fell back to being just my normal self.  But
those seconds seemed like years and the experience will last me a lifetime.

As a further clarification, many times I speak of this or that spiritual viewpoint.  But I
should point out that these are, in most cases, well documented and long held views and
that I am simply repeating them, but in most cases, views which I have also come to accept
as my own, after testing their validity over many years.

WayneG




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From aiq_AT_ureach.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:57:00 -0500
From: John McCook 
To: oneword  
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


the time between MO and MO II was when i lost track of JM for
quite a while...after a single listening of apocalypse when it
was new and not liking it (i know...), reading JM's comment
about the New MO being more "feminine", and just missing the MO,
i just drifted away, from a great many things...i was heading
into a long period of time starting in the late 70s when i
thought every thing was over (punk, disco, synths...)when i
listened to nothing but acoustic, bluegrass and that short lived
jazz mutation "new acoustic music" (hearing tony rice this
friday, mike stern on saturday)....

until...saw a john mclaughlin trio cassette (not many cds in the
stores yet) and the floodgates opened...started getting all
those titles i missed over the years on disc...and returned to
electric guitar...

i never tried to hear MO II live due to the above stated
disinterest, not sure i was privy to an opportunity...so i
always thought of them as a watered down version on MO....

the montreaux set blows that assumption out of the water...what
a powerhouse! different from, but every bit as dymanic and
fierce...the sections sans string section and horns match MO
blow by blow, and with those sections added the music is very
ambitious and often successful... 

my only complaint would be the occasional tuning/intonation
slippage...

as to the spiritual implications?  that's up to you mate...

________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag

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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:23:23 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: aiq_AT_ureach.com, one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John McCook" 
To: "oneword " 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:57 PM
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> as to the spiritual implications?  that's up to you mate...


Cool!  ;-)  Nice write up on Apocalypse, too John.  It was very heartfelt.

WG

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From rasibley_AT_rasibley.cnc.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:35:17 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP#1 - Discs 1 & 2 (M.O.)


Hello to All,

   I've included a concert memory and two posts from former MO-2 trumpet
player and OW list member Bob Knapp from October '96. They're been slightly
edited for length, and are at the end of my box set comments so you can
skip to them directly if you'd like.

   I resisted watching the video of this concert and just listened to the
CD's. Watching the MO perform would have made my opinions even more biased
;-).

   The '74 concert CD's are a nice document of the band and a nice way to
"augment" my fading memory of the time period. In '74 I was in my
mid-teens, and although Music has always been a major part of my Life,
Fusion was "MY Music". And John and the MO were the leaders of the pack. I
was surprised by the break-up of the original MO, but any feelings of
personal devastation were short lived. 

   Looking back nearly 30 years past, I think there had to be a certain
degree of bravery on JMcL's part in presenting the expanded MO line-up.
Following your Muse and taking risks musically is one thing, pulling it off
in front of an audience is quite another. I hope that John allows himself a
measure of vindication and satisfaction when there is acceptance of his
changes in musical direction.

   A few comments about the music: 

'Power Of Love': The order of the songs was different from the '74 Masonic
concert I attended. 'Power Of Love' was played half way through the show.
John played an Ovation Legend steel-string while sitting on a stool,
instead of playing the Bogue doubleneck and standing. Even in a "live"
performance, the poignancy and tenderness of the piece comes through. 

'Wings Of Karma': This version is like two separate songs merged together;
the original arrangement with a funk tune added. I think someone mentioned
sounding like "chaos" in an earlier posting: for me, the chaos is what
makes this piece exciting. It sounds like it could fall apart at any
second, taking you right to the point of going over the edge before it
resolves back to the opening theme. Gayle Moran is a better accompanist
than I remember. The string section plays a bit of 'Pastoral' from "VEB"
after John's solo. Ponty may have been John's first choice violinist for
MO-1, but I think he would have been "too stiff" in that line-up. He has
the chops, but he doesn't have the down-n-dirty, nitty-gritty that Jerry
provided. I think he's a better "fit" in MO-2. Strike a fire under his ass
and he can light it up when he wants to.

'Smile Of The Beyond': Whenever I hear this piece, I always think of how
Gayle's voice filled the Masonic theater that evening. The acoustics of the
Masonic were much more conducive to the dynamics of these pieces. The break
is taken at a gallop. Again, there's chaos, but it's an organized chaos.
Narada's playing reminds me of Lenny White's playing on "Hymn Of The
Seventh Galaxy": he's all over the place stylistically and his playing is
sort of on the raw side. I love both Narada's and Billy Cobham's playing,
but one of the important differences between them is that while Narada
propels the music, he doesn't "drive the band" (Ralphe seems to have this
job). Which is one of things that Billy did as part of his "role" in the
music. Despite this nit-pick, Narada's solo is inspired and powerful. Give
the drummer some!!!!!

'Vision Is A Naked Sword': I remember when someone in the audience yelled
for John to play this at a '96 Free Spirits concert ;-). At the '74
concert, I remember John conducting the string section as they played the
intro. This version is a lot looser and funkier than the version on
"Apocalypse". Performing this music "live", back then, had to have been
quite an achievement. After Ponty's solo, the string section plays a bit of
'Opus 1' from "VEB". They also played the ending riff from 'Faith' during
Narada's drum solo on 'Smile'. It's interesting to hear these string parts
played in another context. John uses a ring modulator during his guitar
solo, creating some nice effects. 

'Hymn To Him': This piece has always been a load-shooter. And this version
is no exception. The majesty of this piece just pierces your heart.
Ralphe's solo is great. I think Ralphe was about 19-years-old in '74, and
he played a fretless Fender bass; which is a different animal all together
from fretted. He deserved more credit as a player for doing so. When you
mention fretless bass, people tend to automatically think "Jaco". The
finale of this live version is just as awesome as the one on "Apocalypse":
BRA-FUCKIN'-VO!!!!!

'Sanctuary': The listed title was probably an honest mistake: but this
piece is actually 'Dawn' from "IMF", not 'Sanctuary' from "BOF". The
arrangement for the full ensemble makes me wish that more MO-1 material had
been orchestrated. I can imagine 'Dance Of Maya', 'Vital Transformation',
and 'Hope' played by this line-up. Gayle sings the melody at one point,
which is a very nice touch. JMcL and Ponty trade licks toward the end,
throwing in a little bit of 'Layla'. This piece isn't on my Montreux video,
so it was a real pleasure to hear this. 

   If there are other surprises on this level in the box set, then it's
well worth the bucks.

atb,

r




From: Bob Knapp
To: one-word_AT_factory.ml.ee
Subject: Re: Useless Info.
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996


>Anyone else have any "Useless Info"?
>
>-kevin


Hi Kevin and all,

   Great story!

   Actually, I have some very vivid recollections about learning complex
Mahavishnu rhythmic figures from John. Though, I *wish* they had involved
beers.

   I remember the very first rehearsal I had with MO-2. Shortly after being
introduced to John and everyone else in the group he gave me the music for
'Vision is a Naked Sword' from the "Apocalypse" album. Unfortunately, it
was the trombone part and I played trumpet, flugelhorn, and flute. John
just said, "Oh, I thought you played trombone. Well, can you just play the
trombone part on trumpet, then?"

   Well, let's see it's written in bass clef: so all I have to do is read
it in bass clef, transpose it up a whole step, add two sharps to the key
signature, and then play it down an octave, unless the notes are not on my
horn, in which case I play whatever note fits most reasonably. That puts it
in the key of either F# or B#. Hmmm. "Sure, no problem." 

   OK, so now I also see the meter is 11/16 over 11/8. As he explained, it
goes like this:

"...the violins play this figure in 11/16 time 123,123,12,123
123,123,12,123
123,123,12,123
123,123,12,123
etc.

while underneath the percussion plays this in 11/8 time, 1+2+3+4+123
1+2+3+4+123
1+2+3+4+123
etc.

and then you come in after about 4 bars. OK? Let's try it." 

   (I'm starting to feel queasy now, and a sort of pressure in my chest.
All this with no mention of
give me beer,
give me beer,
give me,
give me beer)

(4 bars later)

JM- "Hold it, just a minute... Bob? Is there a problem somewhere?" 
BK- "Uh, no. Just give me a second..., OK, now I've got it." (repeat)

   I was a little shaken after 4 hours of this. So I went back to my room,
transcribed each piece by hand, and had them ready by the next day. 

:-)

Cheers,
Bob


From: Rod Sibley
To: one-word_AT_factory.ml.ee
Subject: Apocalypse Show
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996

Hi Gang,

   Bob Knapp wrote:

>One of the difficulties with the MO-2 was that WE KNEW that people had come to
>expect the Jan, Jerry, Billy, and John and that what we we're doing was going
>to come as a shock to many. The first MO was at their peak of popularity at
>the time the group was disbanded and everyone expected to see their heroes
>jammin' as hard as ever in concert. Then we show up with strings, soft vocals
>and come from a totally different musical direction, but still smokin'
>(apologies to MylaA, but Gayle Moran (IMO) was not "caterwauling". Chick
>Corea seemed pretty impressed as well). There were a lot of disappointed
>fans, I'm sure, but in those concerts something much more came through to the
>audience than just the notes. 

[The complete quote is at the very end of this post - RS 2/04] 

   I have a concert memory to share:

   When MO-2 toured to support "Apocalypse", the album hadn't been released by
the time they came to Detroit. So I had no idea what the music would be
like or knew any of the personnel (except Ponty). The show was at the
Masonic Temple. The last MO-1 concert (12/30/73) was also at the Masonic,
so the atmosphere and memories of the audience were firmly rooted in the
past.

   Guitarist Leo Kottke opened the show with a solo performance. When the MO-2
came onstage, I was taken aback by the number of people: a string and horn
section! A woman on keyboards!

   I can't remember the set list exactly, but I remember that after the band
performed 'Power of Love', John thanked the audience (in that quiet voice
of his) and was about to introduce the next song. From out of nowhere,
someone from the audience yelled (loudly), "Your music is beautiful!" The
entire audience started to applaud and cheer, which lasted for almost 1-1/2
minutes. You could see that John was very moved by this. I got the
impression that the "acceptance" and appreciation of his new direction must
have meant a lot. This loses a lot in the translation, but believe me, it
was a VERY magical moment.

   I think the band then went into 'Smile of the Beyond'. When Gayle started
singing (!!!: remember, we were used to MO-1), her voice just FILLED the
auditorium; and even the people that were passing the joints stopped to
listen. EVERYONE wanted to hear that voice. Fella's, it was anything BUT
"caterwauling". (Was she married to Chick while she was in the band, or
after?)

   I'd like to thank Bob for sharing his experiences with us (I loved the
first rehearsal story). We are very lucky to have a musician who has played
with John as a member of our group.

>OK, sorry about the excursion into the past. I could go on about what
>eventually brought an end to the Mahavishnu era, but I'll shut up for now.
>Next...

MORE, MORE......

All the Best,

Rod



From: Bob Knapp
To: one-word_AT_factory.ml.ee
Subject: Re: Apocalypse Show
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996


Hi Friends,

Rod Sibley writes:

>I have a concert memory to share:

>I can't remember the set list exactly, but I remember that after the band
>performed 'Power of Love', John thanked the audience (in that quiet voice of
>his) and was about to introduce the next song. From out of nowhere, someone
>from the audience yelled (loudly), "Your music is beautiful!" The entire
>audience started to applaud and cheer, which lasted for almost 1-1/2 minutes.
>You could see that John was very moved by this. I got the impression that the
>"acceptance" and appreciation of his new direction must have meant a lot.

   You have to remember that the band had only been together for 4
performances at the time of the Detroit concert. It really meant a lot to
us as well. Even though Michael Walden and I were both from Kalamazoo, only
a couple of hours away, and we tried to bring as many friends as we had, we
still appreciated the honor. You begin to see how live music gives as much
to the performers as the audience.

   It's funny how people can remember what happened after so many years.
Rod is exactly right.

>I think the band then went into 'Smile of the Beyond'. When Gayle started
>singing (!!!: remember, we were used to MO-1), her voice just FILLED the
>auditorium; and even the people that were passing the joints stopped to
>listen. EVERYONE wanted to hear that voice. Fella's, it was anything BUT
>"caterwauling". (Was she married to Chick while she was in the band, or
>after?)

   No, but that's where he first met her. She was also thrilled to meet
Chick as I recall, she was a great fan of his as well. I still listen to
'Smile of the Beyond' and remember the absolute silence of the audience
until it's conclusion. No one wanted to do anything that would break the
spell. Gayle's voice was perfectly suited to the lightness of the piece.
Her voice combined with the melody is really quite hypnotic. 

   My own favorite piece from that tour was 'Hymn to Him'. The version on
the record was about 15 minutes but in concert was more like 45 minutes. We
performed once it at the outdoor Schaeffer Music Festival in NYC's Central
Park. Every major musician in the NY area was there back stage, Stanley
Clarke was having a fit because he had been asked to join the group earlier
but had turned it down; he was heard to say, "I knew I should have taken
that job." We played for about an hour and 1/2 before playing 'Hymn to
Him'. By that time it had started to rain lightly but the audience didn't
even begin to leave. They were seemingly transfixed by the music. It was
like they were all in a state of meditation or something. By the end of the
piece the rain was coming down in sheets and the wind was blowing the rain
onto the stage electronics and musicians as well. Music executives in $500
silk suits were going out and just STANDING in the downpour, totally
soaked! Lightning, thunder, the whole nine yards, but no one moved. It was
like they had been cleansed or baptized or something. By the end of it the
audience just kept cheering, applauding, and calling for more. Soaked to
the bone. It was absolutely amazing! It is really one of John's most
beautiful works in my opinion.

   Have a good weekend.

Cheers,

Bob




*** Complete post from above:


One of the difficulties with the MO-2 was that WE KNEW that people had come
to expect the Jan, Jerry, Billy, and John and that what we we're doing was
going to come as a shock to many. The first MO was at their peak of
popularity at the time the group was disbanded and everyone expected to see
their heroes jammin' as hard as ever in concert. Then we show up with
strings, soft vocals and come from a totally different musical direction,
but still smokin' (apologies to MylaA, but Gayle Moran (IMO) was not
"caterwauling". Chick Corea seemed pretty impressed as well). There were a
lot of disappointed fans, I'm sure, but in those concerts something much
more came through to the audience than just the notes. Most of you,
probably all, KNOW EXACTLY what I mean. Each member really DID try to give
the audience the "highest and best within each of us" and that is what
truly came through to each audience member inwardly if not outwardly. The
music combined with the intense inner intensity, which was primarily
focused though John, was what really changed peoples opinions about the
band. As Jean-Luc once put it, "When this band is really on, there is no
other group on earth that can match its performance." It was a
revolutionary concept for the time as well as the audience, though it was
one of the oldest reasons for making music.






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From johnstrad37_AT_hotmail.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:53:00 -0500
From: John Campbell 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)





My two cents on this stuff. MO II seems to be JM's nod to modern classical 
music. There are shades of atonal-almost avant garde music in there, for 
instance the intro to Wings of Karma.

JM's incorporation of funk into the mix is where he veers off from the 
Webern/Berg influence in this music and where JM adds his unique take on 
this coupled with his amazing guitar playing Narada Jean-Luc, Ralphe, Gayle, 
Stephen Kindler, et al. "If God is in all of us then for gods sake let's 
have a good time!" The funk makes it fun.

Really enjoyed reading Rod's post about his MOII concert experiences.

Very adventure some music and these two discs alone make the Box Set a must 
have... now for the Original Shakti stuff.....Oh Yeah....:) It's a GOLD 
MINE!

John

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! 
http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418


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From aksundaram_AT_yahoo.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:50:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Anant Sundaram 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP#1 - Discs 1 & 2 (M.O.)


Rod: Thanks for that hair-raisingly beautiful post
(and, incidentally, the memories of the early days of
OW)! wOW. Rgds, Anant

PS: Bob, are you still around, but lurking?

--- Rod Sibley  wrote:
> 
> Hello to All,
> 
>    I've included a concert memory ....etc etc 

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:07:01 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Campbell" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> Really enjoyed reading Rod's post about his MOII concert experiences.


As did I!  Thanks, Rod.

WG

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From patrick_AT_allegroassociates.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:42:54 -0700
From: Patrick Ripley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


The last touring version of MO II  was the first chance I had to see JM.
He was touring with Jeff Beck.  The concert was held in The Phoenix Civic
Plaza Convention Center in downtown Phoenix Arizona.  A HORRIBLE place for
music.  Basically, a big, concrete box.  They set up folding chairs on the
floor and constructed a stage on one end. But despite the bad accoustics,
the concert was excellent. Probably mostly because ti was my first chance to
see JM live..in the flesh! A couple of rememberances:

1) The band was pretty funky, mostly due to Ralph Armstrong, but also, Norma
Jean Bell on saxaphone.  She ramped the funk up a notch.  JM did this little
soul-shuffle step thing across the stage as he played on some numbers.  Very
playful kind of attitude.

2) I thought it was odd that MO opened for Jeff Beck.  Come to find out
later,  in a Jeff Beck interview, JM asked to go on first that night because
he had something to do after the show.  Beck was impressed that JM didn't
really care where he was on the bill, the music would stand on it's own.

Does anyone else know whether it was a common thing on this tour to switch
the order on the bill or was this a unique occurance.   Beck implied that it
was a unique occurance?

Patrick Ripley






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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:33:56 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Patrick,

When MOII (VEB) toured with Jeck Beck here in Pennsylvania, Beck played first.  Beck came
out towards the end of MO again to join in and play with McLaughlin.  Please dig deep and
give it some thought about that night.  I would appreciate an as detailed description of
that entire evening, no material how seemingly insignificant the detail might seem to you!
Thanks.

WayneG


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ripley" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


>
> The last touring version of MO II  was the first chance I had to see JM.
> He was touring with Jeff Beck.  The concert was held in The Phoenix Civic
> Plaza Convention Center in downtown Phoenix Arizona.  A HORRIBLE place for
> music.  Basically, a big, concrete box.  They set up folding chairs on the
> floor and constructed a stage on one end. But despite the bad accoustics,
> the concert was excellent. Probably mostly because ti was my first chance to
> see JM live..in the flesh! A couple of rememberances:
>
> 1) The band was pretty funky, mostly due to Ralph Armstrong, but also, Norma
> Jean Bell on saxaphone.  She ramped the funk up a notch.  JM did this little
> soul-shuffle step thing across the stage as he played on some numbers.  Very
> playful kind of attitude.
>
> 2) I thought it was odd that MO opened for Jeff Beck.  Come to find out
> later,  in a Jeff Beck interview, JM asked to go on first that night because
> he had something to do after the show.  Beck was impressed that JM didn't
> really care where he was on the bill, the music would stand on it's own.
>
> Does anyone else know whether it was a common thing on this tour to switch
> the order on the bill or was this a unique occurance.   Beck implied that it
> was a unique occurance?
>
> Patrick Ripley




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From patrick_AT_allegroassociates.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:30:00 -0700
From: Patrick Ripley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Hi Wayne,

These days I seem to have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast.
But I'll try. ;-)

I don't remember the date of the concert but it was in the summer of
1975.  JM wore white, but no jacket - way too hot here for that. 

In the lobby there were some tables with books, tapes and literature
from Sri Chinmoy.  I don't remember any MO merchandise.  If there had
been, I most certainly would have purchased something.

I remember walking in and seeing the stage set up for MO, but not Jeff
Beck. I didn't think too much of it because they were still setting up.
The Beck group was much smaller and I figured maybe they would just pull
out a drum riser, etc. in front of the MO gear as I'm sure you have
experienced at many other concerts.

It was a pretty full house.  It seemed fairly evenly divided between
those there to see JB and those to see JM. As the lights went down, the
doobie smoke went up.

MO took the stage.  I thought it was odd for them to open, but I figured
what the heck.  I'll just get to hear what I came for sooner.  I believe
it was JM who gave a brief hello and then the standard request for a few
moments of meditational silence, which, of course, were interrupted by
idiotic yelling from the crowd.

They opened with Eternity's Breath.  Most of the material was from VEB.
They may have played one or two MO 1 pieces, but I can't recall.

The string and horn section seemed a bit smaller than I expected.  Maybe
it was pared down by one player for this tour?  Steven Kindler has
assumed the featured violinist role.  I was disappointed that Jean
LucPonty and Gayle Moran were no longer with group.  But Kindler did a
great job.

I believe Stu Goldberg was on keyboards and I will echo other comments
made here. He never got enough credit for his playing, following in the
shadow of Jan Hammer.  (I think there is a video clip on Julian's site
that gives a good hint of the power of his playing.  I don't know if it
is on CD, but I have a vinyl album of him, Larry Coryell and L.
Subramanian that is quite good too.)

However, Narada Michael Walden WAS there on drums.  Being a drummer
myself, I was most anxious to see him. He did not disappoint. He had
complete command of the beautiful, massive white double-bass drum setup.
He played with disciplined passion.  I always thought that it was such a
waste of talent for him to drift off into disco.  It was definitely a
highlight for me to see him play.

Norma Jean Bell was just fun and funky as hell on saxophone and lead
vocals.   I remember she played in this sort of squatting position with
the instrument held out in front of her.  Had to leave room for dancing!

Ralphe Armstrong on bass was very solid and musical. His physical
presence was mostly in the background but his musical contribution was
large and up front.

But, of course, JM was most impressive of all, particularly when it was
my first time seeing him live. He made a very impressive figure - short
hair (remember, this is 1975) dressed in all white and his physical
movements that just seemed to help coax things from a guitar that I had
never heard.  Even though they were playing in this big concrete box of
a convention center, his searing, fast chops and intense volume seemed
to cut through everything and rattle your soul. And again, that little
shuffle/dance move across the stage was most endearing. It added
lightness and humor to the power of the music.

The whole band seemed to be loose and friendly.

When the band finished it's set, there was a tremendous burst of
applause and typical calls for an encore.  This went on longer than
normal.  Finally, a band member (I can't remember who, but it was either
a string player or horn player, came to the microphone and said; "We
would love to play more music for you, but time simply does not permit.
Thank you very much.  Goodnight". 

There was no encore.  The house lights went up and the stage was struck
for Jeff Beck.

Beck took the stage and played material from the "Blow By Blow" release.
Good stuff, but it was just so anticlimactic to what had just occurred.
It just seemed bland and ordinary.  In fact I left probably about half
way through his set.  It just wasn't that interesting compared to what I
had just seen and heard. Plus, I wanted to keep the MO memory fresh in
my mind.

The Jeff Beck interview I referred to previously may have been in Down
Beat. I think it was around the time he released the live album with the
Jan Hammer Group, but I could be mistaken there.  I remember that the
interviewers question was something to the effect of; "What was it like
to tour with JM ?"  And his answer was that JM didn't care about being a
star, it was the music that was most important.  And how he recalled one
time being asked by JM if it was OK if MO opened the show as JM had
something to do that evening.

That's about all I recall.  Thanks for asking!

Patrick Ripley


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
[mailto:owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk] On Behalf Of W. Gondella
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:34 PM
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



Patrick,

When MOII (VEB) toured with Jeck Beck here in Pennsylvania, Beck played
first.  Beck came out towards the end of MO again to join in and play
with McLaughlin.  Please dig deep and give it some thought about that
night.  I would appreciate an as detailed description of that entire
evening, no material how seemingly insignificant the detail might seem
to you! Thanks.

WayneG


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ripley" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


>
> The last touring version of MO II  was the first chance I had to see 
> JM. He was touring with Jeff Beck.  The concert was held in The 
> Phoenix Civic Plaza Convention Center in downtown Phoenix Arizona.  A 
> HORRIBLE place for music.  Basically, a big, concrete box.  They set 
> up folding chairs on the floor and constructed a stage on one end. But

> despite the bad accoustics, the concert was excellent. Probably mostly

> because ti was my first chance to see JM live..in the flesh! A couple 
> of rememberances:
>
> 1) The band was pretty funky, mostly due to Ralph Armstrong, but also,

> Norma Jean Bell on saxaphone.  She ramped the funk up a notch.  JM did

> this little soul-shuffle step thing across the stage as he played on 
> some numbers.  Very playful kind of attitude.
>
> 2) I thought it was odd that MO opened for Jeff Beck.  Come to find 
> out later,  in a Jeff Beck interview, JM asked to go on first that 
> night because he had something to do after the show.  Beck was 
> impressed that JM didn't really care where he was on the bill, the 
> music would stand on it's own.
>
> Does anyone else know whether it was a common thing on this tour to
switch
> the order on the bill or was this a unique occurance.   Beck implied
that it
> was a unique occurance?
>
> Patrick Ripley




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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:32:29 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


There have been many great posts so far.

This morning I listened to Disc # 1 again.  What beautiful music.  One of my
favorite tunes is the acoustic Power of Love from Apocalypse.  It is just so
lovely.  The opportunity to hear it done "electrically" at Montreux is
something I never expected to have.

I have been thinking about the "spiritual" aspect of the music that Wayne
has "challenged" me to pontificate on.  I am not going to fall into the trap
of competing with Wayne's beliefs.  But, here is what I will say.

I was very aware of this aspect at the time and did not dismiss it at all.
(I still don't.)   In fact, I even had put the Sri Chinmoy Aphorism poster
that came with the Inner Mounting Flame album on my wall.  I sort of dug
Chinmoy's poetry at the time.  And lest we forget, such seeking was not all
that uncommon during that time period.  This was just after the Beatles and
the Mahesh Yogi....after all.

Listening to Mahavishnu, or even the album Devotion, was a religious
experience for me because I knew that was where McLaughlin was coming from.
I identified the music with flight to the heavens and beyond  and even
understood that when McLaughlin said "God was playing through him", it was
meant in the sense that he believed we were all God, and that all of our
gifts were from God and we were really vessels for that expression.   In
other words, his music was an expression of his Devotion to a Supreme Being.
I took that moment of silence at the beginning of the show very seriously.

All that being said, it is an actual fact, that with few exceptions, his
bandmates had nothing to do with this.  This can not be overlooked when we
discuss this music.  I admire John's devotion and agree that his music is
spiritual.  But I disagree that is the only way we should judge it or that
if we don't view his music in that context then we don't "get it".  We each
should judge it on how it affects us individually.

I think there is a difference between the motives and beliefs of musicians
and listeners.   This is the case with almost every art form I can think of.
Are we to judge any art by the motives or beliefs of its artist.  Yes, I can
see that when the art is a work of protest, that this angle becomes
important.  But what if the art is meant as entertainment?  I believe if we
looked at the personal beliefs or personal actions of many great artists, we
would be horrified.  (Do you like Miles?  Are you aware of some of his
behavior?)  To look at art or listen to music for its own sake...I believe
that should be the pure goal of the recipient.

When I hear great Symphonic music, I do wonder about how the great composers
minds worked.  But I don't wonder about their politics, their religion or
their core beliefs.  I wonder how their musical minds worked.  To me, John's
religiousity and related beliefs are interesting reading and are, of course,
of great importance to him and how he goes about living his life.  But they
are his beliefs and not necessarily mine.  I don't think this eliminates me
from understanding his music or admiring both John and his art.  The fact of
the matter is that it is entirely possible for another musical artist to
have the same exact beliefs and feelings as John has in every way- and still
produce the shittiest music ever heard on the planet.  Good or religious
motives are not enough.  To me...it is about the music.

Regards,

Walter




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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:03:12 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Patrick,

Great!  Thanks.  See comments below:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ripley" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


>  moments of meditational silence, which, of course, were interrupted by
> idiotic yelling from the crowd.

WG:  Stoners always.  :)

> The string and horn section seemed a bit smaller than I expected.  Maybe
> it was pared down by one player for this tour?  Steven Kindler has
> assumed the featured violinist role.  I was disappointed that Jean
> LucPonty and Gayle Moran were no longer with group.  But Kindler did a
> great job.
>
> I believe Stu Goldberg was on keyboards and I will echo other comments
> made here.

WG:  Wow, I never knew they made such personnel changes.  There was a slow transition from
MOII and MOIII.

> However, Narada Michael Walden WAS there on drums.  Being a drummer
> myself, I was most anxious to see him. He did not disappoint. He had
> complete command of the beautiful, massive white double-bass drum setup.
> He played with disciplined passion.  I always thought that it was such a
> waste of talent for him to drift off into disco.  It was definitely a
> highlight for me to see him play.

WG:  You had to see him do Inner Worlds live.  The most fantastic, incredible percussion
performance I have ever witnessed in my entire life!  It was literally super-human.  I
wrote a detailed account of that concert years ago.  Maybe some day I will relate it here.

WayneG



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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:21:51 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Nice post, Walter.  Thanks for sharing.  See comments below:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> I have been thinking about the "spiritual" aspect of the music that Wayne
> has "challenged" me to pontificate on.  I am not going to fall into the trap
> of competing with Wayne's beliefs.

WG:  No challenge or competition, Walt.  Just trying to get people to think of things
other than just what amps he used, et al.  I think if most people think about it, every JM
concert they have gone to has touched them in some inner way, and left a lasting
impression on them.  Just trying to get people to relate that more deeply, over the
mundane.

 > In fact, I even had put the Sri Chinmoy Aphorism poster
> that came with the Inner Mounting Flame album on my wall.

WG:  Do you still have that poster?  Could you somehow post a photo of it, or describe it
better as to exactly what it was?  Thanks.

> Listening to Mahavishnu, or even the album Devotion, was a religious
> experience for me because I knew that was where McLaughlin was coming from.
> I identified the music with flight to the heavens and beyond  and even
> understood that when McLaughlin said "God was playing through him", it was
> meant in the sense that he believed we were all God, and that all of our
> gifts were from God and we were really vessels for that expression.   In
> other words, his music was an expression of his Devotion to a Supreme Being.
> I took that moment of silence at the beginning of the show very seriously.
>
> But I disagree that is the only way we should judge it or that
> if we don't view his music in that context then we don't "get it".  We each
> should judge it on how it affects us individually.

WG:  I agree.  The music means something different to every person.  And if it is
something spiritual to you, it will also mean something different to each person, as God
has a different face for each one of us, suited just for where each of us is, on our
spiritual journey.  But if you don't get anything spiritual out of the band at all, then,
whatever you do get, you are not getting "it", meaning that thing (spiritual) to which I
referred to.  If you do get a very spiritual thing out of it though, I hope I have helped
a few to dwell on that a bit more.

WayneG



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:46:54 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



Walter said:
>  > In fact, I even had put the Sri Chinmoy Aphorism poster
> > that came with the Inner Mounting Flame album on my wall.
>
> WG:  Do you still have that poster?  Could you somehow post a photo of it,
or describe it
> better as to exactly what it was?  Thanks.


Long ago gone.  It was probably about 12" x 12".  It was pink with a white
flame inside of which was written the aphorism.

Regards,

Walter

P.S.  I checked Julian's Archives...He doesn't seem to have it.  Okay, guys.
Let's find it!



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From patrick_AT_allegroassociates.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:37:12 -0700
From: Patrick Ripley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



I have it...still in the sleeve, too!  I'll scan it later today.  Where
shall I send it?  Do you want it at 72dpi or something else?

Patrick Ripley

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
[mailto:owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Walter Kolosky
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 1:47 PM
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)




Walter said:
>  > In fact, I even had put the Sri Chinmoy Aphorism poster
> > that came with the Inner Mounting Flame album on my wall.
>
> WG:  Do you still have that poster?  Could you somehow post a photo of

> it,
or describe it
> better as to exactly what it was?  Thanks.


Long ago gone.  It was probably about 12" x 12".  It was pink with a
white flame inside of which was written the aphorism.

Regards,

Walter

P.S.  I checked Julian's Archives...He doesn't seem to have it.  Okay,
guys. Let's find it!



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:21:26 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



Good going Patrick...

My advice would be to wait a day or until Julian sees these posts.  I think
he would like to host the image on the JM archives since it is not part of
his extensive collection..  That way, we can all go take a look.

Regards,

Walter
>
> I have it...still in the sleeve, too!  I'll scan it later today.  Where
> shall I send it?  Do you want it at 72dpi or something else?
>
> Patrick Ripley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
> [mailto:owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Walter Kolosky
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 1:47 PM
> To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
>
>
>
>
> Walter said:
> >  > In fact, I even had put the Sri Chinmoy Aphorism poster
> > > that came with the Inner Mounting Flame album on my wall.
> >
> > WG:  Do you still have that poster?  Could you somehow post a photo of
>
> > it,
> or describe it
> > better as to exactly what it was?  Thanks.
>
>
> Long ago gone.  It was probably about 12" x 12".  It was pink with a
> white flame inside of which was written the aphorism.
>
> Regards,
>
> Walter
>
> P.S.  I checked Julian's Archives...He doesn't seem to have it.  Okay,
> guys. Let's find it!
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
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> other info send word "help" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
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From rasibley_AT_rasibley.cnc.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:33:16 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Hi again,

Patrick wrote:

>I have it...still in the sleeve, too!  I'll scan it later today.  Where
>shall I send it?  Do you want it at 72dpi or something else?
>

   Ooops, sorry Patrick. I posted my last message before I read yours. I
scanned at 400 dpi, file size is 141K. Send your scan to Julian, anyway.
Maybe he could use it to make the downloading easier and faster.

Have a great weekend,

Rod



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From patrick_AT_allegroassociates.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:51:42 -0700
From: Patrick Ripley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Rod,

No problem.  I think it's the philosophy of this forum that there is no
such thing as too much JM stuff. ;-)

I'm just please that after two or three moves, I found it so quickly.  (
I have "archived" albums stored out-of-pocket).

Patrick Ripley

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
[mailto:owner-one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Rod Sibley
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 4:33 PM
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



Hi again,

Patrick wrote:

>I have it...still in the sleeve, too!  I'll scan it later today.  Where

>shall I send it?  Do you want it at 72dpi or something else?
>

   Ooops, sorry Patrick. I posted my last message before I read yours. I
scanned at 400 dpi, file size is 141K. Send your scan to Julian, anyway.
Maybe he could use it to make the downloading easier and faster.

Have a great weekend,

Rod



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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:36:34 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


> Long ago gone.  It was probably about 12" x 12".  It was pink with a white
> flame inside of which was written the aphorism.


Do you recall at all anything of what it said--- a few words maybe?  Was it a Sri Chinmoy
poem?  If so, I can probably track it down.  He has only written about 12-15,000.  :)

WG


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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:41:03 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ripley" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


>
>
> I have it...still in the sleeve, too!  I'll scan it later today.  Where
> shall I send it?  Do you want it at 72dpi or something else?
>
> Patrick Ripley

1024 X 768 or 800 X 600 would be nice.   That is 72 dpi if the original is 14 X 10 inches.

WG



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From rasibley_AT_rasibley.cnc.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:25:31 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Hello to All,


>Walter said:
>>  > In fact, I even had put the Sri Chinmoy Aphorism poster
>> > that came with the Inner Mounting Flame album on my wall.
>>
>> WG:  Do you still have that poster?  Could you somehow post a photo of it,
>or describe it
>> better as to exactly what it was?  Thanks.
>
>
>Long ago gone.  It was probably about 12" x 12".  It was pink with a white
>flame inside of which was written the aphorism.
>
>Regards,
>
>Walter
>
>P.S.  I checked Julian's Archives...He doesn't seem to have it.  Okay, guys.
>Let's find it!

   I have it. I just got finished scanning it and I've sent it to Julian. 

atb,

r



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:54:59 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Has John ever topped the epic grandeur of his composition Hymn to Him?

When this tune resolves it is as if a bottle has dropped and all of its
contents leak out - but float skyward instead of making a puddle.  One thing
I have always thought was interesting about John's studio recordings is that
he tends to stay away from the fade-out endings.  He either resolves a tune
and adds an extra ending or he abruptly brings the festivities to an end.

Regards,

Walter




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From watkinsp_AT_ix.netcom.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:46:18 -0500
From: Peter Watkins 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


At 01:54 PM 2/9/2004 -0500, Walter wrote:
>
>One thing
>I have always thought was interesting about John's studio recordings is that
>he tends to stay away from the fade-out endings.  He either resolves a tune
>and adds an extra ending or he abruptly brings the festivities to an end.

This really is a hallmark of John's style.  I think it is more precise,
exact and defined that way, which seems to fit with his overall approach.
He creates tension in his music and he resolves it with a certain finality,
much like a great novelist.

Peter



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From mstaskau_AT_qualcomm.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:26:52 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


     Just getting this in under the wire (two weeks per MBMP is the way to 
go)...

     I had a chance to dig into the first five discs of the Montreux boxed 
set during a recent business trip to London (jet lag had me wide awake 
during the wee hours of the morning).  If these discs are any indication, 
we have a lot of great listening and discussion ahead!

     The music on Apocalypse interweaves orchestral passages with 
improvised electric segments played by the core MO band.  On the Montreux 
discs 1 and 2, the orchestral parts seem a little diminished without the 
full symphony orchestra (which is sometimes a good thing here).  For me, it 
was the improvised segments that really stood out -- the underlying grooves 
are often  quite different from what appears on Apocalypse; the group 
sounds like a kind of latter-day jam band.  I suspect it will take me many 
more listenings to really appreciate everything going on here.

     It's funny how listening to JM's music transports me back to the times 
in my life when I first heard a particular album or piece of music.  I 
first listened to Apocalypse during the spring and summer of 1974, my 
junior year in high school.  As a typical academic nerd type, I was always 
more comfortable during the school months and never quite knew what to do 
with myself in the summer.  In some ways it was a kind of sad and lonely 
time for me, so these emotions come back to me when I hear the music from 
Apocalypse.  By contrast, VOTEB came out during my senior year in high 
school, a much happier time when I sort of came into my own, so I have a 
more positive emotional connection with the music on that record.

     I believe there is a video circulating of the performance captured on 
discs 1 and 2 of the boxed set.  The quality is pretty awful, but it was 
interesting to see John playing the double-neck guitar and how his sweep 
picking (I believe it's called) lets him play two lines simultaneously.

     A few comments on some of the tunes:

Power of Love: I agree with Walter that this is one of the highlights of 
discs 1 and 2.  The lack of the full symphony orchestra gives this version 
a quieter feel that brings out the solemn beauty of the tune (especially 
during the horn intro).  John and Jean-Luc's improvising really resonate 
with the emotion of the piece.  I was surprised at how it really stayed 
with me...I had forgotten the deeply felt emotion in this tune (I'm a 
whistler, and Power of Love was high on my whistling rotation for a while 
there).

Vision is a Naked Sword: The improvised middle section of this piece 
reminds me a lot of Dream from BNE -- I love how the music starts and 
stops, building tension and then releasing it.  The interplay here between 
John and Narada is great (Narada perhaps lacks Billy's athleticism, but he 
is really in sync with John here).   Listening to the Shakti discs in the 
Montreux set further reminded me of how well John plays off his 
drummers/percussionists.

Hymn to Him: During the latter part of this tune, it seems like Gayle 
Moran's electric piano cuts out (I seem to remember that on the video of 
this performance, she was gesturing frantically to the crew trying to get 
it working again).  The bits of horn during the middle of this piece seem 
particularly out of place.

Dawn (aka Sanctuary): The only non-Apocalypse piece on the Montreux discs, 
Dawn was a good choice for this ensemble -- I love Gayle's vocals and 
Jean-Luc's playing, and it's cool how they morph the tune into Layla at the 
end.

Stas


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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:43:22 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


2 days left to discuss the first two discs from the Box Set.


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From rasibley_AT_rasibley.cnc.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:47:51 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Hello to All,

Mark wrote:

>It's funny how listening to JM's music transports me back to the times 
>in my life when I first heard a particular album or piece of music.

   I always like reading your comments, Mark. Glad that you're
participating in the MBMP.

Have a great weekend,

r



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:47:35 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)


Last day to comment on discs 1 and 2.


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From j.haidenbauer_AT_fz-juelich.de Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:23:00 +0100
From: j.haidenbauer_AT_fz-juelich.de
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)




----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Kolosky 
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2004 4:47 pm
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 1 Discs 1 and 2 (Mahavishnu Orchestra)

> 
> Last day to comment on discs 1 and 2.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> 


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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:53:29 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 2  -  Discs 3 and 4 (Shakti)


Starting the header!

Regards,

Walter


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From johnstrad37_AT_hotmail.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:07:27 -0500
From: John Campbell 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti



When Shakti formed, McLaughlin was one of the top guitarists in the world. 
The members of Shakti at the time except for JM were not well known. However 
in retrospect these guys were some of the top instrumental-improvising 
musicians in the world. IMO Shakti starts at a very high level of artistic 
achievement and keeps spiraling up and up.

Take for instance the tune India. It starts out slowly and builds. At 10:15 
in or so JM starts playing back and forth with the percussionists. At this 
point he essentially tunrs the guitar into a melodic tabla, his interplay 
with both drummers is outstanding. IMO he mixes incredible technique with 
feeling like no one else. This lasts for about five minutes.

Then Shankar comes in and starts playing this gorgeous solo, then JM joins 
him and they get into what I would describe as a very easternized, loping, 
almost downtempo groove. This is so laidback and yet intense and it just 
builds and builds with wave after wave of incredible musical feeling. It 
erupts in your mind as physical manifestations of musical pleasure!

This is just one part of one disc and yet listening to it almost leaves one 
wasted.

Just a start...

John

_________________________________________________________________
Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! 
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/


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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:18:27 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


I missed the first Shakti tour.  I can't remember why.  But I think it was a
matter of not having transportation and since Shakti was even more "out
there" than Mahavishnu, I probably couldn't find anyone interested in going.
(Remember the days in which you may have had a car, but due to its
mechanical condition, trips over 20 miles were very risky?)  I do remember
the show I missed was a double-bill with Oregon.

I will recount my very interesting Shakti concert memories from the next
year, when we look at the next Shakti discs.

I am very disappointed with the Shakti appearance from Discs 3 and 4.
First, the sound quality is the worst of the whole set.  The drone box shuts
off and on and is too loud.  The guitar is too quiet and tinny sounding.
The violin at times sounds like nails across a chalkboard.  The continuous
feedback problem is very distracting.  (This is not the case of trying to
harness the feedback as JM did on Discs 1 and 2).  I have not taken the time
to listen to the left track alone when you can hear Vikku complaining about
"something not being good".  Has anyone isolated that to hear everything he
says?

Despite my problems with the sound, I would gladly live with that problem
if the performance had been an inspired one.  This was one of those nights
however, where I believe, inspiration was lacking.  This is not easy for me
to say.  I am very grateful to get to hear this concert at all and I believe
it is an exciting event, but it just is not that entertaining.  I believe
the solo intro on India is one of the worst I have ever heard John play.  It
seems quite pointless really.  I also think that L.Shankar sits back too
much.  Even the drummers do not come close to approacingh the fire they
exhibited on the first Live Shakti recording.

I do accept the performance on its own terms and suspect, because John has
rarely let me down, that what is represented on these two CDs is really a
shell of what the live performance sounded like.

So while I find the existence of the concert recording exciting and
historically important, I will not note it as being Shakti's finest hour.

But the next Montreux performance...that may be another matter entirely...

Regards,

Walter



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From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 04:28:45 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] Re: OW Montreus Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti

  Personally I think both recordings of discs 2 and 3 are great shows,
despite the fact the sound quality of both may be certainly
 inferior to the first live recording made in South Hampton College and
officially released in 1976, which had a quasi-perfect sound quality.
 
  I believe the performance is brilliant as always, the balance between
parts and instruments involved is perhaps even more significantly
evident, and the interaction  balanced, to the benefit of lightness and
fluidity of the ensemble and the exposition of each single musician
involved in the group unity, and the ensemble effect. Each of them indeed
does not lose an inch of their brilliance; on the contrary, they are 
better enhanced and stirred in their own particular  rights, than maybe
the original performance in South Hampton, brilliant as it was and showed
 
  I missed the concert given by the Shakty group in Bologna July 76,
which was instead attended by people of my town and
I remember their enthusiasm  in their report of the concert at the Stadio
of Bologna, in the hot and beautiful summer month of 1976.
However I could see Shakti live two years later in Venice, after their
second album "Handful of Beauty" was released. Then also I can
remember the young guitarists of my town playing out the themes of HOB,
and parts of the improvisations on the themes
exciting the joy of all staying around them.
 
  Again, the approach of JML to Indian music can only be praised in the
way he did it, and that is the particular
way of originality combined harmoniously to respect and understanding
of the  Asian musical culture of India. The dynamicity is there in the
playing, and his never forgetting the element of inspiring vital energy,
the
 joy and the pleasure in the acoustic sounds of the compositions everyone
called "ragas", but they are a unique kind of  ragas, world ragas
if we can call them like that.
 
  He certainly made an inspired fusion with  Indian music, that
incorporated his great style of playing and skilled composition.
 
  Cheers All in the list,
 
  Claudio
 
 
_______________________________________________________________________________
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From m.chiste_AT_tin.it Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:03:46 +0100 (ora solare Europa occidentale)
From: Claudio 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: "one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk" 
Subject: [OW] Re OW Montreux Box Set Discs 2 and 3 Shakti 

  Sorry to send my review of Montreux discs 2 and 3 twice, but I
felt a  proof-reading of the one I sent already was necessary (I know I
should have done it before sending it, as a rule). 
 
  I think IMO both  discs 2 and 3 are great shows, despite the fact the
sound quality of both may be inferior to the first live recording made in
South Hampton College and officially released in 1976, which had a
perfect sound quality.
 
  I believe the performance is brilliant as ever, the balance between
parts and instruments involved is perhaps even more significantly
evident, and the interaction  balanced, to the benefit of lightness and
fluency of the ensemble and the exposition of each single musician
involved in the unity of the ensemble, and the effect of the ensemble.
Each of them indeed does not lose an inch of their brilliance; on the
contrary, they are  better enhanced and stirred in their own particular 
rights and qualities, than maybe the original performance in South
Hampton, brilliant as it was, showed
 
  I missed the concert given by the Shakty group in Bologna July 76,
which was instead attended by people of my town and
I remember the enthusiasm  in their report of the concert at the Stadio
of Bologna in the hot and beautiful summer month of 1976. However I could
see Shakti live two years later in Venice, after their second album
"Handful of Beauty" was released. Then  I can also remember  young
guitarists of my town playing  the themes of HOB, and parts of the
improvisations on the themes,
exciting the joy of all around them.
 
  Again, the approach of JML to Indian music can only be praised in the
way he did it, and that is the way of originality combined harmoniously
to respect and understanding of the  Asian musical culture of India. The
dynamicity is there in the playing, never forgetting the element
of inspiring vital energy, the joy and the pleasure of the acoustic
sounds of the compositions everyone called "ragas", although their being 
a unique kind of  ragas, world ragas if we can call them like that.
 
  He certainly made an inspired fusion with  Indian music, that
incorporated his great style of playing and skilled composition.
 
  Cheers All in the list,
 
  Claudio
_______________________________________________________________________________
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evoluto - Clicca Qui

    [ Part 2, Image/GIF  678bytes. ]

    [ Unable to print this part. ]


From johnstrad37_AT_hotmail.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:55:53 -0500
From: John Campbell 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


Walter wrote:

I missed the first Shakti tour.  I can't remember why.  But I think it was a
matter of not having transportation and since Shakti was even more "out
there" than Mahavishnu, I probably couldn't find anyone interested in going.
(Remember the days in which you may have had a car, but due to its
mechanical condition, trips over 20 miles were very risky?)  I do remember
the show I missed was a double-bill with Oregon.

I unfortunately did not know that Shakti was touring or I would have 
definately checked tham out. JC

WK: I will recount my very interesting Shakti concert memories from the next
year, when we look at the next Shakti discs.

Look forward to hearing about it. JC

WK: I am very disappointed with the Shakti appearance from Discs 3 and 4.

First, the sound quality is the worst of the whole set.  The drone box shuts
off and on and is too loud.  The guitar is too quiet and tinny sounding.
The violin at times sounds like nails across a chalkboard.  The continuous
feedback problem is very distracting.  (This is not the case of trying to
harness the feedback as JM did on Discs 1 and 2).  I have not taken the time
to listen to the left track alone when you can hear Vikku complaining about
"something not being good".  Has anyone isolated that to hear everything he
says?

I agree the sound quality could be better but it is still better than 
audience tapes I have heard and is acceptable to me. JC

WK: Despite my problems with the sound, I would gladly live with that 
problem
if the performance had been an inspired one.  This was one of those nights
however, where I believe, inspiration was lacking.  This is not easy for me
to say.  I am very grateful to get to hear this concert at all and I believe
it is an exciting event, but it just is not that entertaining.  I believe
the solo intro on India is one of the worst I have ever heard John play.  It
seems quite pointless really.  I also think that L.Shankar sits back too
much.  Even the drummers do not come close to approacingh the fire they
exhibited on the first Live Shakti recording.

Here is where we diverge. In fact, this recording of India is excellent. It 
is more reserved than the Shakti performance on Disc 5, but it is a 
masterpiece, listen to it again, JM's solo starts out slowly and is demure, 
however he is searching and solos and accompanies himself in a delicate and 
quite stunning way. He single note runs are very cool and his chordal 
backing is exquisite.

This is a very intricate performance, it's almost like a mini symphony-these 
long versions of Shakti pieces. Things really heat up after the 10:00 minute 
mark when JM and Vikku duet. Crank it up! L. Shankar comes in at 15:00 
minutes into it and plays this just burning solo. JM's accompaniment really 
swings. I personally couldn't be happier with it.  JC.

WK: I do accept the performance on its own terms and suspect, because John 
has
rarely let me down, that what is represented on these two CDs is really a
shell of what the live performance sounded like.

It is what it sounds like, the recording is acceptable to me. JC

WK: So while I find the existence of the concert recording exciting and
historically important, I will not note it as being Shakti's finest hour.

But the next Montreux performance...that may be another matter entirely...

You may be onto something....;>) John

Regards,

Walter

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From johnstrad37_AT_hotmail.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:57:31 -0500
From: John Campbell 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti





>From: "Walter Kolosky" 
>Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:18:27 -0500
>
>
>I missed the first Shakti tour.  I can't remember why.  But I think it was 
>a
>matter of not having transportation and since Shakti was even more "out
>there" than Mahavishnu, I probably couldn't find anyone interested in 
>going.
>(Remember the days in which you may have had a car, but due to its
>mechanical condition, trips over 20 miles were very risky?)  I do remember
>the show I missed was a double-bill with Oregon.
>
>I will recount my very interesting Shakti concert memories from the next
>year, when we look at the next Shakti discs.
>
>I am very disappointed with the Shakti appearance from Discs 3 and 4.
>First, the sound quality is the worst of the whole set.  The drone box 
>shuts
>off and on and is too loud.  The guitar is too quiet and tinny sounding.
>The violin at times sounds like nails across a chalkboard.  The continuous
>feedback problem is very distracting.  (This is not the case of trying to
>harness the feedback as JM did on Discs 1 and 2).  I have not taken the 
>time
>to listen to the left track alone when you can hear Vikku complaining about
>"something not being good".  Has anyone isolated that to hear everything he
>says?
>
>Despite my problems with the sound, I would gladly live with that problem
>if the performance had been an inspired one.  This was one of those nights
>however, where I believe, inspiration was lacking.  This is not easy for me
>to say.  I am very grateful to get to hear this concert at all and I 
>believe
>it is an exciting event, but it just is not that entertaining.  I believe
>the solo intro on India is one of the worst I have ever heard John play.  
>It
>seems quite pointless really.  I also think that L.Shankar sits back too
>much.  Even the drummers do not come close to approacingh the fire they
>exhibited on the first Live Shakti recording.
>
>I do accept the performance on its own terms and suspect, because John has
>rarely let me down, that what is represented on these two CDs is really a
>shell of what the live performance sounded like.
>
>So while I find the existence of the concert recording exciting and
>historically important, I will not note it as being Shakti's finest hour.
>
>But the next Montreux performance...that may be another matter entirely...
>
>Regards,
>
>Walter
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
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_________________________________________________________________
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From ma007a4609_AT_blueyonder.co.uk Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:12:59 +0000
From: Mark Anderson 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


Walter

I have to say that despite whatever shortcomings in sound this 
recording may have, it is nonetheless an absolutely stunning set of 
music, easily up there with the first 'live' Shakti album.

If this is a bad concert then all I can do is wish that my best 
performances were as good as this bad one :-)

Honestly, John is playing like a man possessed. I would agree with you 
that the next year's performance is much more polished and even (if 
such a thing is possible) up a notch on this, with Shakti having had a 
year to refine their very raw sound and get more relaxed with the music 
(hence the inclusion of 'Peace of Mind' ?)

This presumably is the 'Handful of Beauty' Tour, since they feature a 
couple of tracks off that brilliant platter.
By the time of Natural Elements, the next tour, I feel that John is 
already restless with the Indian form and the experimentation with 
production and other non-Indian percussion on NE are telltale marks 
that John's need for constant change was much in evidence. No wonder 
then, when he moved on to his "Electric Shakti', The One Truth Band.

marco
On 19 Feb 2004, at 20:55, John Campbell wrote:

>
> Walter wrote:
>
> I missed the first Shakti tour.  I can't remember why.  But I think it 
> was a
> matter of not having transportation and since Shakti was even more "out
> there" than Mahavishnu, I probably couldn't find anyone interested in 
> going.
> (Remember the days in which you may have had a car, but due to its
> mechanical condition, trips over 20 miles were very risky?)  I do 
> remember
> the show I missed was a double-bill with Oregon.
>
> I unfortunately did not know that Shakti was touring or I would have 
> definately checked tham out. JC
>
> WK: I will recount my very interesting Shakti concert memories from 
> the next
> year, when we look at the next Shakti discs.
>
> Look forward to hearing about it. JC
>
> WK: I am very disappointed with the Shakti appearance from Discs 3 and 
> 4.
>
> First, the sound quality is the worst of the whole set.  The drone box 
> shuts
> off and on and is too loud.  The guitar is too quiet and tinny 
> sounding.
> The violin at times sounds like nails across a chalkboard.  The 
> continuous
> feedback problem is very distracting.  (This is not the case of trying 
> to
> harness the feedback as JM did on Discs 1 and 2).  I have not taken 
> the time
> to listen to the left track alone when you can hear Vikku complaining 
> about
> "something not being good".  Has anyone isolated that to hear 
> everything he
> says?
>
> I agree the sound quality could be better but it is still better than 
> audience tapes I have heard and is acceptable to me. JC
>
> WK: Despite my problems with the sound, I would gladly live with that 
> problem
> if the performance had been an inspired one.  This was one of those 
> nights
> however, where I believe, inspiration was lacking.  This is not easy 
> for me
> to say.  I am very grateful to get to hear this concert at all and I 
> believe
> it is an exciting event, but it just is not that entertaining.  I 
> believe
> the solo intro on India is one of the worst I have ever heard John 
> play.  It
> seems quite pointless really.  I also think that L.Shankar sits back 
> too
> much.  Even the drummers do not come close to approacingh the fire they
> exhibited on the first Live Shakti recording.
>
> Here is where we diverge. In fact, this recording of India is 
> excellent. It is more reserved than the Shakti performance on Disc 5, 
> but it is a masterpiece, listen to it again, JM's solo starts out 
> slowly and is demure, however he is searching and solos and 
> accompanies himself in a delicate and quite stunning way. He single 
> note runs are very cool and his chordal backing is exquisite.
>
> This is a very intricate performance, it's almost like a mini 
> symphony-these long versions of Shakti pieces. Things really heat up 
> after the 10:00 minute mark when JM and Vikku duet. Crank it up! L. 
> Shankar comes in at 15:00 minutes into it and plays this just burning 
> solo. JM's accompaniment really swings. I personally couldn't be 
> happier with it.  JC.
>
> WK: I do accept the performance on its own terms and suspect, because 
> John has
> rarely let me down, that what is represented on these two CDs is 
> really a
> shell of what the live performance sounded like.
>
> It is what it sounds like, the recording is acceptable to me. JC
>
> WK: So while I find the existence of the concert recording exciting and
> historically important, I will not note it as being Shakti's finest 
> hour.
>
> But the next Montreux performance...that may be another matter 
> entirely...
>
> You may be onto something....;>) John
>
> Regards,
>
> Walter
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying 
> Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe one-word" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
> For other info send word "help" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
>
>
Mark Anderson
FOXY PRODUCTIONS
Bristol
UK
www.foxyproductions.co.uk
Marco_AT_foxyproductions.co.uk
Mob: 07973 288947


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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:52:47 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Anderson" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


> I have to say that despite whatever shortcomings in sound this
> recording may have, it is nonetheless an absolutely stunning set of
> music, easily up there with the first 'live' Shakti album.
>
> If this is a bad concert then all I can do is wish that my best
> performances were as good as this bad one :-)


Well, I wish I can like it better.  Part of my problem may be that my bar
for JM is very high.  It is an expectations game.  I have listened to the
CDs twice now.  On the second listen I was hoping that I would enjoy the
concert more.  But I had the same issues.  It is possible that since I have
been listening to the discs on headphones- I hear every flaw.  Of course, on
the whole I like the concert, but still am disappointed.  I think it is also
true for me to say that my satisfaction with discs 3 and 4 were greatly
lowered when I heard disc 5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Walter




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From ma007a4609_AT_blueyonder.co.uk Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:16:56 +0000
From: Mark Anderson 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


Walter

Try listening to this concert on speakers, that way you don't get so 
wrapped up in the quality issue and just let the music hit you like it 
would in a concert environment. I think Joy and India are staggering, 
this version of Joy rivalling the original live album recording - 
intense !

regards

marco
On 19 Feb 2004, at 21:52, Walter Kolosky wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Anderson" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti
>
>
>> I have to say that despite whatever shortcomings in sound this
>> recording may have, it is nonetheless an absolutely stunning set of
>> music, easily up there with the first 'live' Shakti album.
>>
>> If this is a bad concert then all I can do is wish that my best
>> performances were as good as this bad one :-)
>
>
> Well, I wish I can like it better.  Part of my problem may be that my 
> bar
> for JM is very high.  It is an expectations game.  I have listened to 
> the
> CDs twice now.  On the second listen I was hoping that I would enjoy 
> the
> concert more.  But I had the same issues.  It is possible that since I 
> have
> been listening to the discs on headphones- I hear every flaw.  Of 
> course, on
> the whole I like the concert, but still am disappointed.  I think it 
> is also
> true for me to say that my satisfaction with discs 3 and 4 were greatly
> lowered when I heard disc 5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Walter
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe one-word" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
> For other info send word "help" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
>
>
Mark Anderson
FOXY PRODUCTIONS
Bristol
UK
www.foxyproductions.co.uk
Marco_AT_foxyproductions.co.uk
Mob: 07973 288947


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From rasibley_AT_rasibley.cnc.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:18:38 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


Hello to All,

Walter wrote re Shakti discs 3 & 4:

> I think it is also
>true for me to say that my satisfaction with discs 3 and 4 were greatly
>lowered when I heard disc 5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

   I initially received one of the faulty boxsets from Amazon. Not knowing
how long it would take for me to get a replacement, I copied the first 5
CD's to prepare for the MBMP (don't ask: I didn't copy the whole box set). 

   Remember when we talked about "filling out the CD's"? Discs 3 and 4 fit
on one CD-R. As a result, I've always listened to discs 3,4, and 5 as part
of my "two CD's a week" prep for the MBMP.

   The initial postings for discs 3 and 4 have already mentioned disc 5,
and for good reason. The meat of the discussion is the comparison between
the two concerts. 

   I'd like to humbly suggest that we review discs 3,4, and 5 at the same
time. Waiting two weeks to review disc 5 takes the wind out of potential
discussion. Doing it now compares "Shakti eras", speeds up our progress,
and relieves any nail-biting for the OW'ers who read these comments to
decide whether the boxset is worth getting ;-).

   Let's extend this MBMP another week to include disc 5. 

   I leave the final decision to our MBMP master of ceremonies.

Have a great weekend,

r



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:34:25 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti



Rod said

>    I'd like to humbly suggest that we review discs 3,4, and 5 at the same
> time. Waiting two weeks to review disc 5 takes the wind out of potential
> discussion. Doing it now compares "Shakti eras", speeds up our progress,
> and relieves any nail-biting for the OW'ers who read these comments to
> decide whether the boxset is worth getting ;-).
>
>    Let's extend this MBMP another week to include disc 5.
>
>    I leave the final decision to our MBMP master of ceremonies.

 This is a very good idea but, since we are now on a two week schedule,
let's just add disc 5 for the next week.

Notice the new header!

Regards,

Walter



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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:15:25 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


By virtue of a very good friend, I have had opportunity to listen to the Shakti disc with
"India" on it.  India has always been one of my favorite Shakti tunes and Shakti is my
favorite incarnation of a JM band, second only to the MO.

My only references are the original LP's as I have never purchased any of these recordings
on CD.  On LP at least, all three, but particularly the first two albums, are simply
enrapturing to listen to.  Please see comments below:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Kolosky" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti



> I missed the first Shakti tour.  I can't remember why.  But I think it was a
> matter of not having transportation and since Shakti was even more "out
> there" than Mahavishnu, I probably couldn't find anyone interested in going.
> (Remember the days in which you may have had a car, but due to its
> mechanical condition, trips over 20 miles were very risky?)

WG:  I think I may still have one of those cars, Walter.

> I am very disappointed with the Shakti appearance from Discs 3 and 4.
> First, the sound quality is the worst of the whole set.

WG:  While I have not found the sound to be terribly eggregious, having now called my
attention to it, it is perhaps a bit more flat and uninvolving than discs One and Two.
But then, I have played the Shakti disc only on my computer, which while a very good
"high-end" computer sound system, is not as good as a fine stereo.

> The drone box shuts
> off and on and is too loud.  The guitar is too quiet and tinny sounding.
> The violin at times sounds like nails across a chalkboard.  The continuous
> feedback problem is very distracting.

WG:  I dismiss this as the travails of live performing where you only have the one take to
go with.  So I note these things and accept them for what they are and try to overlook
them in the overall musical experience.  I think Discs One and Two had many similar
problems as well.  I'm just so glad to have the recordings that I tend to be very
forgiving of them.

> Despite my problems with the sound, I would gladly live with that problem
> if the performance had been an inspired one.  This was one of those nights
> however, where I believe, inspiration was lacking.

WG:  I would have to agree with this as well.  While I do enjoy the music very much, it
does not grab me with the same passion and intensity as the original recordings.

> I am very grateful to get to hear this concert at all and I believe
> it is an exciting event, but it just is not that entertaining.  I believe
> the solo intro on India is one of the worst I have ever heard John play.  It
> seems quite pointless really.  I also think that L.Shankar sits back too
> much.  Even the drummers do not come close to approacingh the fire they
> exhibited on the first Live Shakti recording.
>
> I do accept the performance on its own terms and suspect, because John has
> rarely let me down, that what is represented on these two CDs is really a
> shell of what the live performance sounded like.

WG:  Unfortunately, this often seems to be the case with many events I have seen.  The
engineer totally fails to capture the essence of the event.  I think this was a major
pitfall of the BNaE recording as well.

Thanks,

WayneG



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From mmarzelli_AT_mindspring.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:21:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: mmarzelli_AT_mindspring.com
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


I have to get my prejudices out in the open first--I think that Shakti is possibly the best band
that was ever put together.  Shankar and Zakir are equally on the same musical plateau
as John (as opposed to Srinivas who seems in awe of him).  And if, as Keats points out, 
"Intensity is the excellence of art", well, then this is the most spiritual group of musicians.
     That being said, and even accounting for the problems with the sound, discs 3&4 absolutely
get the blood pumping!  An intense piece like Kriti with its intricate timing showcases the musicianship of the group.
Shankar is absolutely awesome.  Everything he plays is full of feeling and is dead on.  I had seen
the original Shakti maybe 15-20 times, and on several of those occasions, Shankar stole the show
from John (mea culpa, mea culpa!)  The interplay between the musicians, percussion and melodic,
is unearthly.  Even though the sound is better on the first 2 discs, when I listen to these 2, the first 
two fade out.  I would have loved the first 2 if these 2 didn't follow.  When you can feel the
intensity and power despite the poor sound, you know you've got something special.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Kolosky 
Sent: Feb 20, 2004 10:34 AM
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti



Rod said

>    I'd like to humbly suggest that we review discs 3,4, and 5 at the same
> time. Waiting two weeks to review disc 5 takes the wind out of potential
> discussion. Doing it now compares "Shakti eras", speeds up our progress,
> and relieves any nail-biting for the OW'ers who read these comments to
> decide whether the boxset is worth getting ;-).
>
>    Let's extend this MBMP another week to include disc 5.
>
>    I leave the final decision to our MBMP master of ceremonies.

 This is a very good idea but, since we are now on a two week schedule,
let's just add disc 5 for the next week.

Notice the new header!

Regards,

Walter



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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:00:42 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


Now Disc 5 is what Shakti can be all about!  The band hits the ground
running and brings us every amount of intensity that the Mahavishnu
Orchestra did- plus JOY.  This is the Shakti that I knew and loved.  I
believe this show surpasses any of the recordings of the band previously
available.  The percussion is alive, Shankar is on fire, seemingly using
more low register runs and appears to be quicker on the take.  McLaughlin
goes for the fences during his solos.  I find them much more heartfelt,
daring and enjoyable- spirtual (Wayne;-) ) than at the previous Montreux
appearance.  The Indian singing, call and response, is the most vital I have
ever heard on CD or in person.  The crowd is gathered up in a net of
anticipation as the band goes from one brilliant moment to the next.  This
recording is the quintessential Shakti performance as far as I am concerned.


Shakti Anecdote:  My memory has failed me more and more as I age, so I
apologize if I have written the following story here before- but many of you
are new to the list and maybe the others have forgotten as well.

In the 1970's, my best friend Chris hated jazz and anything related to it.
I hated the "new wave" rock music that included the likes of Elvis Costello
and others.  We would have constant arguments about why the other person
could possibly like what they liked.  At some point, we reached a
compromise.  I would go with him to a "new wave" concert of his choice and
in return he would go to a concert of my choice.

He did choose Elvis Costello.  He was playing at a Club in Boston called The
Paradise.  We went to the show and Elvis came out and appeared to be pissed
off at something.  Several times during the show he criticized the club for
whatever reason.  The fans didn't care and they ate the show up.  The
reaction was so great that Elvis probably did 4 or 5 encores.  I remember
him saying something to the fact that they would never do these many encores
unless the crowd was so appreciative as this crowd was...and especially
never in that club and that he would never play there again.

I must say, I enjoyed the concert.  Elvis was on some sort of angry man
kick, but the energy of the band was so upbeat, that you couldn't help but
get carried along.  One concert down, one concert to go.

I chose Shakti.  I had seen the Mahavishnu Orchestra and been blown away by
John's playing of the electric guitar.  But I must say, I was really nervous
about going to see him play acoustic.  This was for two reasons.  One, I
thought, no one can really play acoustic guitar the way John had on the
Shakti record.  I mean it was super-human- there must have been some
chicanery in the studio.  Two, and some of you older guys will identify with
this, I really wanted my friend to be impressed with JM.  To be a JM fan in
those days set you apart from most of your contemporaries.  To try to
explain to somebody who loved rock music that you were a fan of some band
that played Indian music was tantamount to telling them you wanted to go see
a ballet or something.  It was very important to me that Chris liked JM,
because he would go back and tell all of my doubting friends how great JM
was...and I would be off the hook as the guy "who likes that strange music".
As a teenager, self-identity is an important issue.

Gary Burton opened up for Shakti.  Shakti came out and I was stunned.  Not
only was John playing guitar as well as he did on the recording, he was
playing tons better!  My friend was watching and listening with rapt
attention.  At some point he leaned way forward in his seat to see exactly
how McLaughlin was making those incredible sounds!  It came time for
McLaughlin to do a solo peace-  The Daffodil and the Eagle, if my failing
memory serves me....and after the song, or before it, Zakir announced, "and
now ladies and gentlemen one of the greatest guitarists on earth, John
McLaughlin".  At this point my friend turned to me and said, "He's right!
He's right"!

Victory for Walter!!!!!!  Yes, I will no longer be ostracized!  My musical
tastes will be accepted in my peer group!  On the way home from the show all
Chris could talk about was how great Shakti and McLaughlin were.  No
superlative was left unsaid.  I couldn't wait until he told our friends
about his experience.  In fact, a whole group of friends was playing cards
that very night and we decided to drop in on the game on the way home.

We entered the house and I think it was Tom who asked, "Chris, how was the
concert?"

In a very clear and distinct fashion, Chris responded, "It was OK."

I looked at him in disbelief.

Tom asked, "it was just OK?"

"Yeah, just OK.", Chris mumbled.

My best friend in the whole world was betraying me!  Why?  Because it turns
out that he thought it would really be funny between him and me as we were
always trying to get the best of each other.  To this day, some 30 years
later, I still remember this moment as one of the biggest betrayals in my
 life ;-)

Chris and I still refer to it when we have good-natured discussions or
disagreements.  "Do you remember the day you betrayed me?".  I was never
again able to get those guys to accept the music I listened to.  But, you
know, the lesson learned is that if you stick with something long enough,
eventually it will return to reward you.  The satisfaction I have gained
from the music I love over the years is far greater than theirs has been.
Of this, I am sure.

Regards,

Walter




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Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
recovery system.
http://www.smartidonline.com
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From walterkolosky_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:12:02 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 2-  Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


...activity has slowed drastically...remember only five days left to discuss
MBMP # 2.

As I had originally believed, I am beginning to feel that two weeks is too
long to spend on each MBMP...prove me wrong!

Regards,

Walter




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Walter Kolosky- President of Special Market Services
Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
recovery system.
http://www.smartidonline.com
****************************************************************************
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From mstaskau_AT_qualcomm.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:30:07 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP # 2-  Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


     My post is coming...trying to squeeze in one more listen of discs 3-5 
before I wrap it up...

     I'd really prefer to stick with 2 weeks per 2 discs, or one disc per 
week...

Stas


>...activity has slowed drastically...remember only five days left to discuss
>MBMP # 2.
>
>As I had originally believed, I am beginning to feel that two weeks is too
>long to spend on each MBMP...prove me wrong!
>
>Regards,
>
>Walter
>
>
>
>
>****************************************************************************
>****************************
>Walter Kolosky- President of Special Market Services
>Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
>recovery system.
>http://www.smartidonline.com
>****************************************************************************
>****************************
>
>
>
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From andres_d_AT_ut.ee Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:34:36 +0200 (EET)
From: Andres Didrik 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Walter Kolosky wrote:

> Victory for Walter!!!!!!  Yes, I will no longer be ostracized!  My musical
> tastes will be accepted in my peer group!  On the way home from the show all
> Chris could talk about was how great Shakti and McLaughlin were.  No

Walter, no reason to go fascist about that. One should be open to many
kinds of music (if not all), like our JM - i hardly recollect any style
JM has ever criticized, the only thing I can remember right now is the
Metheny & Scofield album which wasn't up to many expectations anyway
(well, it had some good tracks).

what i have become to learn over the years is that music is such a
personal thing - you shouldn't blame anyone for not listening to your kind
of music. that's why i try to avoid the religious topic here as well -
while the spirituality is sure there - no need to go religious about that,
because ultimately it will lead you to become a kind of fascist, culture
fascists i call these people. the likes that have such a hierarchical
point of view, placing him-herself on top over other people, and judging
from what music someone listens to. and not knowing the reasons why they
do that or what they do get out of it.

i listen to a lot of really crap music - it just amuses me so much. even
the bands like Queen or Iron Maiden - they can make my day, allright, and
they actually do, sometimes. thats why i loved Baz Luhrmann's Moulin Rouge
so much - it's a very special 'bohemian' way of understanding music and
art, you either adore Baz because of that or the movie leaves you
completely indifferent.

the fact is, the better the music is, the more it separates people. which
is a rather good thing by me, because then it's like your secret lover no
one knows about.

but better and worse music - you can't really blame someone for loving
somebody, or could you?

look, i'm rambling here :)

--
peace,
a.



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From mstaskau_AT_qualcomm.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:50:00 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


     Well put, Andres -- my feelings exactly.

     One of the good things about getting older (hate to sound like such a 
geezer) is that you learn to distinguish what you really *do* like or want 
from what you think you *should* like or want.  This ability makes life a 
lot simpler.

     These days, if I hear some music that I like, I'm happy for the 
fortunate discovery and don't question it.  Similarly, if I buy a 
critically acclaimed record and it doesn't do anything for me after a few 
listens, I move on and don't question that either.

     Having said that, I can sympathize with Walter -- it's rare that I 
come across anyone who has even heard of JM, and rarer still that I meet an 
actual fan.  That's one of the reasons I value being a member of this list 
-- it's great to communicate with people who really get it.

Stas

> > Victory for Walter!!!!!!  Yes, I will no longer be ostracized!  My musical
> > tastes will be accepted in my peer group!  On the way home from the 
> show all
> > Chris could talk about was how great Shakti and McLaughlin were.  No
>
>Walter, no reason to go fascist about that. One should be open to many
>kinds of music (if not all), like our JM - i hardly recollect any style
>JM has ever criticized, the only thing I can remember right now is the
>Metheny & Scofield album which wasn't up to many expectations anyway
>(well, it had some good tracks).
>
>what i have become to learn over the years is that music is such a
>personal thing - you shouldn't blame anyone for not listening to your kind
>of music. that's why i try to avoid the religious topic here as well -
>while the spirituality is sure there - no need to go religious about that,
>because ultimately it will lead you to become a kind of fascist, culture
>fascists i call these people. the likes that have such a hierarchical
>point of view, placing him-herself on top over other people, and judging
>from what music someone listens to. and not knowing the reasons why they
>do that or what they do get out of it.
>
>i listen to a lot of really crap music - it just amuses me so much. even
>the bands like Queen or Iron Maiden - they can make my day, allright, and
>they actually do, sometimes. thats why i loved Baz Luhrmann's Moulin Rouge
>so much - it's a very special 'bohemian' way of understanding music and
>art, you either adore Baz because of that or the movie leaves you
>completely indifferent.
>
>the fact is, the better the music is, the more it separates people. which
>is a rather good thing by me, because then it's like your secret lover no
>one knows about.
>
>but better and worse music - you can't really blame someone for loving
>somebody, or could you?
>
>look, i'm rambling here :)
>
>--
>peace,
>a.
>
>
>
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From aksundaram_AT_yahoo.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:16:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Anant Sundaram 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti


--- Andres Didrik  wrote:

> i listen to a lot of really crap music - it just
> amuses me so much. even
> the bands like Queen or Iron Maiden.....


Ah, Andres, our dear founder! You just fell into the
same trap that you claim Walter did... to equate Queen
with 'crap music' is a bit unfair (I actually like
Queen quite a bit, in a kitsch-y sort of way--who
knows why, perhaps I am biased because Freddy Mercury
was an Indian).

Bottom line: It is OK (as Walter apparently did) to
praise/denigrate/elevate/trash music (or for that
matter, any art form, religion, politics,
philosophy...I could go on) as one well pleases, and
it may have little to do with cultural (or any other
kind of) fascism. It could just be our love or hate of
an object that we want to externally validate by
sharing with someone.

For anyone secure in his/her love or knowledge of
something, the fact that others might put it down is
of little consequence.

Rgds
Anant

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From greytowers_AT_yahoo.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:17:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Marlowe 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3 and 4 Shakti


How is it faulty?  I just got mine and noticed the
binding of the books were coming apart.  Is this
related? 

>    I initially received one of the faulty boxsets
> from Amazon. 

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From johnstrad37_AT_hotmail.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:29:44 -0500
From: John Campbell 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] Montreux Box Set Discs 3, 4 and 5 -Shakti



Walter, Stas and Andres, Another reason it is difficult to turn others on to 
JM's music is that how we hear music is based on what we have heard before. 
I have two friends that are into JM, Daevid Allen, Gong, Terje Rypdal, 
Dylan, etc... These guys are open to any and all music in fact the more 
adventurous the better. This is in some part because we have all been into 
this stuff since we were kids. To try and play a Shakti CD for someone whose 
listening is only classical or only bebop or only whats on the radio...that 
is pushing what they can absorb maybe a little too hard. That is why this 
list is important to me also. I feel Like we all have the willingness to 
listen and enjoy something different, if your on the list your mind is 
probably open to adventurous music.

John


>     Well put, Andres -- my feelings exactly.
>
>     One of the good things about getting older (hate to sound like such a 
>geezer) is that you learn to distinguish what you really *do* like or want 
>from what you think you *should* like or want.  This ability makes life a 
>lot simpler.
>
>     These days, if I hear some music that I like, I'm happy for the 
>fortunate discovery and don't question it.  Similarly, if I buy a 
>critically acclaimed record and it doesn't do anything for me after a few 
>listens, I move on and don't question that either.
>
>     Having said that, I can sympathize with Walter -- it's rare that I 
>come across anyone who has even heard of JM, and rarer still that I meet an 
>actual fan.  That's one of the reasons I value being a member of this list 
>-- it's great to communicate with people who really get it.
>
>Stas
>
>> > Victory for Walter!!!!!!  Yes, I will no longer be ostracized!  My 
>>musical
>> > tastes will be accepted in my peer group!  On the way home from the 
>>show all
>> > Chris could talk about was how great Shakti and McLaughlin were.  No
>>
>>Walter, no reason to go fascist about that. One should be open to many
>>kinds of music (if not all), like our JM - i hardly recollect any style
>>JM has ever criticized, the only thing I can remember right now is the
>>Metheny & Scofield album which wasn't up to many expectations anyway
>>(well, it had some good tracks).
>>
>>what i have become to learn over the years is that music is such a
>>personal thing - you shouldn't blame anyone for not listening to your kind
>>of music. that's why i try to avoid the religious topic here as well -
>>while the spirituality is sure there - no need to go religious about that,
>>because ultimately it will lead you to become a kind of fascist, culture
>>fascists i call these people. the likes that have such a hierarchical
>>point of view, placing him-herself on top over other people, and judging
>>from what music someone listens to. and not knowing the reasons why they
>>do that or what they do get out of it.
>>
>>i listen to a lot of really crap music - it just amuses me so much. even
>>the bands like Queen or Iron Maiden - they can make my day, allright, and
>>they actually do, sometimes. thats why i loved Baz Luhrmann's Moulin Rouge
>>so much - it's a very special 'bohemian' way of understanding music and
>>art, you either adore Baz because of that or the movie leaves you
>>completely indifferent.
>>
>>the fact is, the better the music is, the more it separates people. which
>>is a rather good thing by me, because then it's like your secret lover no
>>one knows about.
>>
>>but better and worse music - you can't really blame someone for loving
>>somebody, or could you?
>>
>>look, i'm rambling here :)
>>
>>--
>>peace,
>>a.
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe one-word" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
>>For other info send word "help" to majordomo_AT_cs.cf.ac.uk
>
>
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From mstaskau_AT_qualcomm.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:15:46 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 2  -  Discs 3, 4 and 5 (Shakti) 

    If there were ever the slightest doubt (and there really wasn't) that
I would shell out the bucks for the Montreux box set, the fact that it
contains three whole discs of the original Shakti band completely erased
that doubt.  Shakti is probably my favorite music of John's (or anyone
else for that matter), so I eagerly anticipated hearing these three
discs.

    Shakti was first and foremost among the music I listened to in my
college years.  I attended college in New York City, and having grown up
in rural Connecticut, I definitely had some trepidations about living in
Manhattan, but it turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made
-- the city was as much of an education as anything I learned in the
classroom.  I also was able to see some great live music -- the Beacon
Theater was just a short subway ride away, and I saw the original Shakti
band twice (both among the most spellbinding and memorable concert
experiences of my life).  I doubt that I'll ever move back to NYC, but I
have to say that once you've lived there, living anywhere else is in some
ways a sad compromise.  The Shakti records were a great musical backdrop
for this time in my life (I actually wore out my original copy of the
first Shakti album and had to buy another one!).

    My overall impression of the Montreux discs 3-5 is that there is a
lot to like here -- I love live performances because you get to hear your
favorite pieces with new solos and interesting variations, and there are
plenty of both on these discs.  However, as others have noted, the discs
are not perfect:
 
    * The recording quality on discs 3 and 4 leaves a lot to be desired
(the sruti-box drone is way too loud when you listen with headphones; it
practically fills the right channel).
    * I would have preferred a recording of Two Sisters or Lady L instead
of two versions of India (but this may not have been in the cards given
what was available to the folks who put the box set together). 
    * I agree with others that the performances (especially John's) on
discs 3 and 4 are not the greatest.   Hearing these discs (and the BBC
show; see below) really makes clear just what an extraordinary
performance was captured on the first Shakti record; John plays like a
man possessed.

    The Montreux versions of many of the tunes have some interesting new
wrinkles compared to the versions on the Shakti records.  Some of these
new wrinkles also appear on the Shakti Live at the BBC show, which I
listened to again recently for the first time in many years.  One thing I
really like about the BBC show is the band and song intros (Zakir's
wonderful explanation of the sruti box; Shankar introducing John as "one
of the greatest guitar players of all time"; John sounding almost
trancelike as he introduces Shankar and What Need Have I for This...)  It
would have been nice to preserve the intros on the Montreux discs as
well.

    Some comments on the pieces themselves:

Disc 3

Joy -- There are some nice new tweaks, twists and turns in the composed
section that opens and closes the piece.  On the whole, though, I found
this version a bit flat and uninspired--it's several minutes shorter than
the album version, and the solo trading between John and Shankar at the
end (one of the highlights on the Shakti with JM record) never quite
takes off here.  Despite its flaws, still eminently listenable and worth
having.

India -- India and Isis are my least favorite tunes from HOB--I find them
both a bit listless and too long and unstructured to hold my interest. 
The Disc 3 Montreux version of India clocks in at over 22 minutes, which
makes the problem even worse.  I agree with Walter that John's solos here
don't really take flight and are too long.  I'm a little disappointed
that this version follows the HOB version so closely (I would have liked
some surprises like those on the other tunes).

Disc 4

What Need Have I for This (aka Nata) -- It's really unfortunate that this
version lacks John's opening solo (the BBC version also opens with
Shankar's solo).  As I've said before, the opening to What Need Have I
for This from the first Shakti album is the single most affecting passage
of music I've ever heard, and I would have loved for John to have taken
another shot at the solo on the Montreux performance.  Here, Shankar is
the real star, with all-around great playing (including some tasty
pizzicato and string-strumming).  John's comping behind Shankar is far
less energetic and more sparse than on the first Shakti album, often
consisting of just stroking the drone strings on the Shakti guitar.  And
John's soloing once again seems a little distracted and incoherent, in
stark contrast to his playing on the record (the BBC version also pales
in comparison to the record).

Kriti -- Nice to see some great back-and-forth improvisation between John
and Shankar added to this piece.

Disc 5

La Danse du Bonheur -- It's great that (unlike on HOB) John solos on this
version (almost makes up for the lack of an opening solo on Nata :-)). 
John also solos on the BBC version of this tune, but not as well as
here.  I love the call and response between John and the percussionists;
Shankar has a similar exchange with Vikku and Zakir at the end of his
solo and once again trots out some finger-picking.

India -- John's soloing is stronger here than on the disc 3 version, and
his guitar practically howls around minute 12-13 and again during minutes
15-16.  Otherwise, there is not much to distinguish this version from
disc 3 or the HOB or BBC versions.

Get Down and Sruti -- Shankar's opening sounds just like What Need Have I
for This.  If you listen to the BBC version of the latter tune, John's
solo during the middle section has a lot of the funky overtones of Get
Down and Sruti, which leads me to believe that WNHIFT evolved into GDAS
over time as the group performed it live.  I'm not especially fond of
this evolution, since I really liked the exuberance and drama of the
original What Need Have I for This.

Joy -- For me, this track was the highlight of the disc.  The opening of
the tune is followed by an abbreviated John/Shankar soloing section that
IMO features John's best and most passionate playing on the three discs. 
Next is a brilliant stretch of scat-singing which builds a tension that
is resolved by the restatement of the opening theme.  I love it when
familiar tunes are reinvented like this on live recordings.

Stas



From rasibley_AT_rasibley.cnc.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:50:57 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.1) 


Hello to All,

   Even though I am a HUGE Mahavishnu Orchestra fan[atic], I know in my
heart of hearts that JMcL did some of his most ferocious guitar playing
with the original Shakti. Just totally unfettered, divinely inspired, and
mad-stooopid. 

   It was like the unknown territory of mixing North and South classical
Indian music, as well as mixing Eastern rhythms and Western
harmony/improvisation was calling to him like a Siren's song. And like a
dog's ears, that song was pitched so that only JMcL could hear it; because
from "the outside-lookin' in" it seemed like he'd started dropping acid
again. No more MO? An acoustic quartet? With Indian musicians? It was
career [and financial] suicide.

   It was also the second time that I was wrong regarding what JMcL
*should* have been doing musically.

   I first saw Shakti when they were on tour with Weather Report. They were
supporting the "Black Market" album, and I believe that this was the first
tour that Jaco did with them. I didn't know what to expect; in fact, I
think the concert was billed as "WR & John McLaughlin with Shakti". Shakti
opened the show. And as soon as they started playing, I was blown
away...again. Not just because of the music, but because it was another
example of JMcL going against conventional expectations and doing what he
believed in. To go from the MO to Shakti showed more bravery on JMcL's
part. And he also exhibited a level of commitment to Music that I'd never
seen demonstrated before, and possibly never since.

   "Rod's JMcL Theory #35": one possible reason that John's playing was so
incendiary in the original Shakti was because, to a degree [initially], he
was the weak link in the chain. He was a Western musician playing on
Eastern turf. He was a student of the Indian system whereas the other
musicians *were* the Indian system. JMcL had to play "catch-up": he had to
up his game not only to play at their level, but to play in their "sphere".
So he played like a demon to get there. I think this is what people are
hearing when they say that the concert on CD's 3 and 4 isn't one of the
better JMcL/Shakti's shows. But wouldn't July '76 make this "early" Shakti?

   "Rod's JMcL Theory #32": JMcL was the "outsider" in Shakti. JMcL knew
that it wasn't enough to simply study the music of the East: you also learn
the music by having an understanding of the people and their culture. This
is the commitment that I referred to above: John immersed himself so much
into the Indian culture that he himself became an Indian. I don't think
even John Coltrane did that? Coltrane named his son after Ravi Shankar, but
he didn't stop eating BBQ ribs.

   In the "old days", I knew that Shakti's music was good; it moved me on
the same level as the MO, but in a different way. But back then I couldn't
appreciate just *how* good it was. I didn't know enough about the music to
appreciate what was actually happening on stage and on record. I didn't
know about Indian ragas. I didn't know about the differences between North
and South Indian classical music. I didn't know about the instruments that
the percussionists were using. So I'm thankful that the box set allows me
the chance to rehear the original line-up with the knowledge that I've
picked up over the years.

   CD's 3 and 4 (July 6, 1976) comments:

   As mentioned in previous comments, the volume of the drone tone is a
little annoying. I'm guessing that a shruti box was used to create the
drone sound at that time. At the concert I attended, there were two women
playing them behind the other musicians. I also remember JMcL saying that
"it [the drone] was the sound, without which, he'd be lost." Back then, I
thought he meant that he deeply loved the sound. Now I know he was making a
bit of a joke: since the drone sort of acts like the tonic (first note in a
scale) in Western music, the drone gives him a guide as to what he can play
harmonically in Eastern music ;-). And compared to the bootlegs that I'm
used to hearing, I don't have a major complaint about the sound quality of
the CD's.

'Joy': It's nice to hear this version played on the guitar with the
scalloped-neck and drone strings. The flat top guitar played on the first
[live] Shakti recording couldn't handle the can-of-whomp-ass that John was
giving it. My Shakti bootleg stash is kinda limited, so it's nice to hear
some "new" Lakshminarayana Shankar playing. I don't think I've ever heard
L. Shankar play anything less than white-hot in the original Shakti. And
the exchanges between JMcL and Shankar are great.

'India': John starts off by funkifying an alap (he wasn't Indian, back then
;-) ). And then he slowly builds his solo, increasing the intensity as he
goes. His upper register playing is simply incredible. At 15:09, he plays a
run that's so off the hook; that if you don't play it back at least three
times before you continue, then you should give away your box set!

   We get to hear more of John's rhythm guitar playing in Shakti, as well.
Shankar plays a stunning solo on 'India' as well, but John's rhythm work
never gets in the way or distracts from Shankar's playing.

'Nata': Mark wrote that this is really 'What Need Have I For This...'. This
piece is a sort of Blues by way of Bombay. It features Shankar: and I'm
sure what he is doing to his violin must be considered illegal in some
parts of the world. Mad-stoopid moment starts at 10:45: keep your
towelettes close by 'cause at 11:32 you're gonna need 'em. This piece also
has more great rhythm work from John.

   This piece also features the percussionists. It kinda goes without
saying that the rhythms that Thetakudi Harihara Vinayakram and Zakir
Hussain lay down are a critical part of Shakti's music. Not only do you
hear their instruments, but you feel them as well: to the point where
sometimes they pull your attention away from the JMcL and Shankar without
you even knowing it. Vikku solos first; and he reminds me how much I like
(and miss) the sound of the ghatam. I wish that Selvaganesh would play more
ghatam in Remember Shakti (I have a pic where you can see the initials
"T.H." on one of his ;-) ). And Zakir is just a Monster. But what's scary
is knowing that he's going to get *better*!

'Kriti': I've never liked this piece. 

to be continued...

r



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From strehl985_AT_comcast.net Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:14:48 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.1) 


Here, Here, Rod----    and Bravo for your fantastic insights and analysis. It was a joy to
read.

Please see comments below:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Sibley" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:50 PM
Subject: [OW] MBMP #2 - Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.1)


>
> Hello to All,
>
>    Even though I am a HUGE Mahavishnu Orchestra fan[atic], I know in my
> heart of hearts that JMcL did some of his most ferocious guitar playing
> with the original Shakti. Just totally unfettered, divinely inspired, and
> mad-stooopid.
>
>    "Rod's JMcL Theory #35": one possible reason that John's playing was so
> incendiary in the original Shakti was because, to a degree [initially], he
> was the weak link in the chain. He was a Western musician playing on
> Eastern turf. He was a student of the Indian system whereas the other
> musicians *were* the Indian system. JMcL had to play "catch-up": he had to
> up his game not only to play at their level, but to play in their "sphere".
> So he played like a demon to get there.

WG:  I suspect also that unlike Remember Shakti, in the original Shakti, JM was like the
bow of a ship at that time, fresh from MO, plunging headfirst into unknown territory,
inventing, creating where no one had been before, with the fervor of a much younger man.
Now with RS, it is old and familiar (both he and the music)---   the "risk" and excitement
just isn't the same.  It is a more safe harbor for him than a giant leap off a blind
cliff, as it was then.

WayneG



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From Thorleif.Hoff_AT_student.uib.no Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:48:01 +0100
From: Thorleif S. Hoff 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.1) 


I too have to express my thorough enjoyment of Rod's post. Very impressive
writing! And who else but Mr. Sibley could come up with this one-liner:

> Coltrane named his son after Ravi Shankar, but
> he didn't stop eating BBQ ribs.

I have to reach for that most embarassing of acronyms (if it qualifies as
such):

ROTFLMAO!

But most importantly, Rod's post immediately inspired me to reach for discs
3,4 and 5. Well done!!!

Thorleif S. Hoff



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From j.haidenbauer_AT_fz-juelich.de Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:51:47 +0100
From: j.haidenbauer_AT_fz-juelich.de
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.1)


>   "Rod's JMcL Theory #35": one possible reason that John's 
> playing was so
> incendiary in the original Shakti was because, to a degree 
> [initially], he
> was the weak link in the chain. He was a Western musician playing on
> Eastern turf. He was a student of the Indian system whereas the other
> musicians *were* the Indian system. JMcL had to play "catch-up": 
> he had to
> up his game not only to play at their level, but to play in their 
> "sphere".So he played like a demon to get there. I think this is 
> what people are
> hearing when they say that the concert on CD's 3 and 4 isn't one 
> of the
> better JMcL/Shakti's shows. But wouldn't July '76 make this 
> "early" Shakti?

 I don't think that this was really EARLY SHAKTI! After all, these guys
had played together for the first time in public around June 1974. In July
1976 they had already several concerts plus a whole US tour (in Spring
1976) behind them. 

                                                     Johann



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From aksundaram_AT_yahoo.com Mon Mar  1 11:09:40 2004
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:04:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Anant Sundaram 
Reply-To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word_AT_cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.1) 


--- Rod Sibley  wrote:
> 
> to be continued...
> 
> r


Can't wait for the rest, Rod! You really do write
beautifully.

Rgds
Anant

PS: For those who might be wondering, 'Nata'
(prounounced naata) is the name of the raag in "What Need...."

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From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:39:49 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7- McLaughlin's One Truth Band/Duet
    with Chick Corea


Creating the proper  header.



****************************************************************************
****************************
Walter Kolosky- President of Special Market Services
Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
recovery system.
http://www.smartidonline.com
****************************************************************************
****************************



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From rasibley@rasibley.cnc.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:31:25 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.2)


Hi again,

   This is a quickie to finish up my comments...

   CD-5 (July 8, 1977):

'La Danse Du Bonheur': When you hear the scatting at the start of this
tune, you KNOW what tune this is. It's like the Shakti version of 'Meeting
of the Spirits'. John is pickin' the shit outta his guitar on this tune!
There's a section where he's playing so fast, that he creates a backlog of
notes: the picked notes actually have to wait for the previous notes to be
heard. There's nothing more that I can say about Shankar, he's simply a
MONSTER. And I define ANYONE not to rock their heads to the rhythms that
Vikku and Zakir are layin' down.

'India': Just like playing in Lifetime with Tony kicking him in the ass
resulted in a jump in John's playing, the year between Montreux concerts
with Shakti shows John with a firmer grasp on Eastern music. His alap on
'India' is more natural: he isn't trying to make his playing fit in or lean
towards his Western side. And since he doesn't have to focus on form, he
plays more freely, with more authority, and more emotion. After he gets
goin' during his solo, there come a point where you can hear that he's
playing straight from the heart: and he's digging in deep. The guitar
actually sounds like a voice; extremely lyrical and expressive. There's
some wicked string bending and ferocious licks flyin' off of the neck of
his guitar, as well. This is truly another high point of the box set.
Shankar plays another hot solo; but by that time you're so drained that you
need to take a break and recover.

'Get Down and Sruti': I'm always amazed at the fullness of Shankar's tone
in the upper register of the violin. It's not shrill or thin sounding; it
doesn't make you want to howl at the moon. His intro to this piece reminds
you of just how stellar his technique is. At 5:56, John plays the opening
chords of 'Phenomenon: Compulsion' from "JMcL-EG" almost note-for-note ;-).
Vikku and Zakir have solo spots on this piece as well. What's a bit
frustrating is that the audience tries to claps along, which actually
restrains the drummers from opening up their solos because they have to
play at a rhythm where the audience can keep up. This doesn't last too
long, but you're left feeling that the solos had more untapped potential.
This is more of a personal nitpick on my part.

'Joy': This version is a little more blistering than the version on CD#3.
And it features a section of "scatting" (Anant, is this "konnakol"?) that
will make you wonder how human beings are able to do that with their
voices.

   I was very happy with the MO CD's in the boxset. The Shakti CD's are
great icing on an already fabulous cake; with more to come. Diabetics,
beware.

atb,

r 



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From greytowers@yahoo.com Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:07:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Marlowe 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #2  -  Discs 3, Fo & 5 (Pt.2)


This occurred to me as well.  Without the restriction
of the clapping I think they really could have taken
off.  However, the clapping is just annoying even if
it had no effect on the players.     

> What's a bit frustrating is that the audience tries
to claps along, which actually restrains the drummers
from opening up their solos because they have to play
at a rhythm where the audience can keep up.  This
doesn't last too long, but you're left feeling that
the solos had more untapped potential.
This is more of a personal nitpick on my part.


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From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:52:23 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7- McLaughlin's One Truth
    Band/Duet with Chick Corea


Disc # 6

Isn't the One Truth Band a hoot?  This is a great live show.  You have
everything from Mahavishnu tunes, electric Shakti quotes,
Phenomenon-Compulsion!, hokey poetry (granted, back then it was not so hokey
and perhaps a bit profound), and a far-out drummer.  One Truth has been
obscenely overlooked over the years.  To this day, I still believe it was
one of the best rhythm sections John ever had.  (This includes both versions
of the band).  And I will also posit that John's writing at this time
produced some of his most wonderful melodies.

To this day, if you attend a McLaughlin concert, and he begins by playing an
introductory solo that bleeds into the arpeggio-laden strains of Meeting of
the Spirits, you still get goose bumps.  When this occurs on Disc # 6, it is
a reassuring note that you are now in a comfortable, albeit highly volatile,
musical cathedral of McLaughlin's building. And to end the concert with
Hope.  Yes!

John, using his new electric scalloped fret-board guitar, just rips through
the music and offers a new stylistic touch- short bursts of incredibly fast
full notes that sound like a pack of firecrackers exploding.  And the funk.
I think the next version of One-Truth was funkier, but this band showed a
funkier and lighter side of JM.

I saw both bands.  I seem to have a strange memory that I saw the second
band at Berklee during the day.  That would be very strange.  But perhaps,
it was in summer and I gone into the early show when it was still light out.
At any rate, This was only the 3rd or 4th time I had seen JM.  I remember
that there was an intermission.  During the break people gathered out into
the halls and foyers of the Berklee Performance Center.  You don't normally
get to talk to people like that in an indoor concert.  But, this was
different and exciting as we were, after all, at a famous music school.  You
would here things like, "Did you see that stretch"?  "Man, what was that
minor scale he played on the second piece"?

After that show, my friend Buck, a very good guitar player, simply said
(paraphrased), "When I go to see a great musician, I don't expect his best
every time.  What I do expect is his best that night.  I want to see him
"work".  I am satisfied if I see that he made every effort to be as good as
he could be instead of just gliding through.  McLaughlin worked tonight.  I
could see it.  I am very happy with his perfromance."  I have always
remembered that bit of wisdom.

That show was also hampered by all sorts of technical glitches and mishaps.
John's electric-acoustic guitar didn't work and he worked on it forever
frustrating the audience in the meantime.  Finally we all just said we could
hear it so he would just play and get over it.  He went ahead and played it
and we couldn't hear a note of his playing.  You could tell he was pissed,
because he knew he made some runs that should have received applause, but
nothing was forthcoming.  During the same tune, he played the banjo into a
microphone and as he was playing the microphone came out of its stand and
crashed onto the floor!  As my friend Buck said, JM had to really work hard
that night.

The other show took place at 1:00 in the morning!!!!!!  It was a two-show
double-bill with Billy Cobham's band.  (Who, disappointly, sucked.)  The
first concert had gone way over time.  So it was a tired crowd that greeted
the band.  The hour became so late that by the end of the show, half of the
crowd was gone.  Fusion for many of these fans at 2:30 in the morning was
too much.  This was the only time I ever took a guest to see JM that ended
up hating him.  When people were cheering, "more, more", my friend Louis was
actually screaming, "no, no" !!!!!!!!

The One Truth performance on the Montreux Set is reason # 100 to own this
collection.  It will be played often at my house!

Regards,

Walter



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From m.chiste@tin.it Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:04:30 +0100
From: Claudio Zanvettor 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs 6 and 7 McLaughlin's One Truth band/Duet with
    Chick Corea

Disc # 6
 
Great intro, on the words of peace and wisdom.
 
- Meeting of the Spirits, a great piece, one of the highlights of " The
Inner Mounting Flame", which had shown all the strength and originality
of John mcLaughlin's music in 1972 in all its shining and inspired light
(a true epiphanyof his own music he had to create I guess, and for those
who came to know his music). It's a great piece on this Disc.
I never saw MO I although I had had an opportunity to see him in
Amsterdam June 1973. Me and a bunch of friends set off with the car from
Brussels to Amsterdam, but when we got to the Concert Gebouw that
evening, the concert had been all sold out, and no seat was available
from the ticket stand, but only from touts, who sold them at
a demanding high price in the opinion of some of us, and the final
decision was not to get in. A spoiled occasio it was, I must admit (first
time I saw McLaughlin live was in Feb 1978 (and then again nine years
later, with Jonas Hellborg in Bozen March 1987, and from that year on
I think I have seen him play live several times, twice in Trento, near of
I live, (once with Paco de Lucia, once alone), then still in 1988
in Ravenna, in Merano with the Free Spirits (maybe the best live concert
I personally saw,  equalled by the great performance he had given in
Bolzano March 1987, and Ravenna a year after). But then again, he's
always so good! and I wonder, would he ever once be /or has he ever been/
disappointing? I doubt it seriously. Then last time I saw JML live
was in July 1998 (Sunday 25th) with the I Remember Shakti, in "La
Pinède" of Saint-Juan les Pins (I had my two sons with me. One of them,
Michel, was a three year old child, lol). 
 
Friendship - played here in Montreux with the One Truth band, a very good
band, powerful, that had been - as they had proved to be and shown in the
'79 "Electric Dreams". Basically, the notes played set you in a mood of
tenderness, as the title "Friendship" also wants to suggest. Notes and
melodic lines very sweet.
 
Two Sisters - it's from the "Handful of Beauty" album, Lavi Shankar
playing beautiful lines together comped by John in a series of delicate
arpeggios and chords. A pure delight hearing it.
 
Mind Ecology & Do You Hear the Voices that You Left Behind - Melodic line
played by L. Shankar's violin, and the guitar. The setting is electric
here, and given some funky mood by the lines of the bass, but the basic
original melody remains fortunately very strong, and always clearly
stated. Do You hear The Voices ... has great fire, in the improvisation
following the theme inspired by the music of John Coltrane.
 
Phenomenon Compulsion & Hope - John is paying honor again to the Gibson
electric guitar, extracting fire and beauty out of it. Vocal
duetting with Shankar perfectly integrated in the ending just before the
closing conclusion of the concert with "Hope". The music is always
flowing, even coming from different sources and compositions, it's always
flowing like a big river taking different affluents, but holding
direction all the time.
 
Disc # 7
 
A great merit of the MB is also in the performance that John McLaughlin
gave together with Chick Corea here made available to listen, on a set of
pieces composed by either by C. Corea (tracks 2-3-4-5) and John
McLaughlin ("La Baleine" and "Thelonius Melodius", respectively tracks 1
and 6), and the final "Beautiful Love" standard great piece of jazz of
the 50's (7 on the song-list). All are of tremendous good quality, either
on the quality level of sound and music.
 
 
Ciao,
 
Claudio


From rasibley@rasibley.cnc.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:10:16 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs 6 and 7 McLaughlin's One Truth band/Duet
    with Chick Corea


Hello to All,

Claudio wrote re OTB CD:

>Great intro, on the words of peace and wisdom.

   I wrote to the List that this intro was from Coltrane's poem in "A Love
Supreme". I was going from a concert memory (and had not yet heard CD#6)
where I thought I remembered hearing a excerpt. I was wrong.

   The Swedish Stringbender (aka Greger Wikberg, aka "Brother Boogaloo")
wrote to me off-list and said that he remembered seeing the verse in the MO
Songbook. Sure as shit, it's on page 10:

Let music of love spread wings of peace over our planet.
No longer pollute our world with poisons of war, poisons of greed, poisons of
   ignorance. 
Let all people, all animals, all beings, earth, air and water live and embrace 
   in love and peace.
Let music of love heal our little globe.
Let music of love  pour out into the universe.
Let music of love  rise from our tiny world and join the stars of endless milky
    rivers of light.

Alan Hovhaness

(Composed especially for the program "WORLD UNITY: The Song Of The Soul" --
October 28, 1975)

   Any further info on the work (ie more verses, availability, etc) would
be appreciated.

   GREAT catch, Gregmeister!

atb,

r 



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From rasibley@rasibley.cnc.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:00:59 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7: OTB /Corea


Hello to All,


>From The Ridiculous...

   I am not a fan of this period of JMcL's music. I bought the recordings
and went to the concerts when JMcL toured, but the only time I listen to
"Electric Guitarist" and "Electric Dreams" is when I have to: usually for
discussion on the List. So I had a bias against the OTB CD right from the
get-go. I decided to give this CD my standard "test" to see whether my
prejudice was justified or whether it would change after I'd listened to
it.
   
   I am a television addict. Virtually nothing can distract me when I
vegetate before the TV screen in the den. Sometimes I will listen to music
(with headphones on) while watching TV. If the music can take my
attention/concentration away from the TV, then I figure there must be
something worth listening to.

   I listened to the OTB CD while looking at the 24-hr Weather Channel: all
they did was forecast the weather across the USA for the entire 72 minutes
of the CD. No car chases, no explosions, no Soprano's or Osbourne's, no
hardcore porno. Just two people, standing in front of a large weather map,
saying whether it was going to rain or snow in your city. With the
exception of JMcL quoting 'Waltz For Bill Evans' (from "MGB") at the intro
of 'Friendship'; L. Shankar and JMcL on 'Two Sisters'; Stu Goldberg's
overall playing; and one or two JMcL solo's: I didn't hear anything else
worth mentioning on this CD.

   But I do know that there is a possibility of it snowing in Detroit on Sunday.

Stas wrote re 'MotS':

>This piece opens with a fragment of Kriti, followed by a group chant, which I
>>found rather syrupy and cringe-inducing.

   I posted about this, but I don't know whether the message made it to the
List the first time. There's a repost below.


To The Sublime...

   When I started listening to the JMcL/Corea duets CD, the music was so
wonderful that I immediately turned the television OFF! Just two Romantics
with big hearts (and big ears) not only playing off of each other, but
playing for each other. The free-jazz noodling of 'Sketches' is the only
point where the music drags. Everything else is just beautiful and lyrical,
with 'Waltze' and 'Turn Around' being my personal faves. Gorgeous Stuff!

atb,

r



Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs 6 and 7 McLaughlin's One Truth band/Duet
with Chick Corea



Hello to All,

Claudio wrote re OTB CD:

>Great intro, on the words of peace and wisdom.

   I wrote to the List that this intro was from Coltrane's poem in "A Love
Supreme". I was going from a concert memory (and had not yet heard CD#6)
where I thought I remembered hearing a excerpt. I was wrong.

   The Swedish Stringbender (aka Greger Wikberg, aka "Brother Boogaloo")
wrote to me off-list and said that he remembered seeing the verse in the MO
Songbook. Sure as shit, it's on page 10:

Let music of love spread wings of peace over our planet.
No longer pollute our world with poisons of war, poisons of greed, poisons of
   ignorance. 
Let all people, all animals, all beings, earth, air and water live and embrace 
   in love and peace.
Let music of love heal our little globe.
Let music of love  pour out into the universe.
Let music of love  rise from our tiny world and join the stars of endless milky
    rivers of light.

Alan Hovhaness

(Composed especially for the program "WORLD UNITY: The Song Of The Soul" --
October 28, 1975)

   Any further info on the work (ie more verses, availability, etc) would
be appreciated.

   GREAT catch, Gregmeister!

atb,

r 






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From mstaskau@qualcomm.com Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:50:22 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7- McLaughlin's One Truth Band/Duet 
    with Chick Corea


Part 1: Montreux Box Set Disc 6 (One Truth Band) [I'll cover Disc 7 in a 
separate e-mail]

     This disc contains music from the Electric Guitarist record, along 
with some Shakti and Mahavishnu pieces and snippets.   Since there is 
nothing from Electric Dreams in this session, I suspect that this was the 
early days of the One Truth Band (the rhythm section here differs from that 
on ED as well).  I've always liked Electric Guitarist  -- as others have 
noted, it's kind of a fun and laid-back record, without the seriousness of 
some of the Mahavishnu music.  I saw the One Truth Band in New York in the 
spring of 1979.  I don't remember much about the concert (I think there was 
more than one other band on the bill, so the One Truth Band didn't play 
very long).

     The first car I ever owned came with a cassette player, and one of the 
first cassettes I bought was Electric Guitarist.  This was the first of 
many pleasant experiences listening to music while driving, which is still 
one of my favorite things to do.

     My overall impression of disc 6 is that it's kind of a fruit salad: 
the pieces are often strange-bedfellows mixtures of odd vocals, different 
periods of John's music, and solos that don't quite gel in many 
cases.  Despite the musical non sequiturs within the pieces, the playing is 
strong throughout--John and Shankar are on fire.  I especially like John's 
quieter playing on a couple of the pieces, where he sounds like a 
traditional jazz guitarist like Jim Hall or Joe Pass.

     Since I've only listened to this disc a couple of times, I hardly feel 
read yto comment in detail, but here are a few first impressions of the 
pieces on disc 6:

Meeting of the Spirits -- This piece opens with a fragment of Kriti, 
followed by a group chant, which I found rather syrupy and 
cringe-inducing.  Very strong solos by both John and Shankar here -- the 
latter shows he can hold his own in a mainly Western setting.

Friendship -- This piece starts with some gorgeous, unadorned solo electric 
playing from John (did I hear a quote from Waltz for Bill Evans 
here?)  After the main theme, the groups lays down a funky groove that Stu 
solos over.

Two Sisters -- John introduces the piece in French (as a duet I believe, 
but Stu joins in at the end).  His generous comping behind Shankar and Stu 
is great, and again I love John's guitar tone here (reminiscent of Remember 
Shakti).  A little disappointing that John doesn't solo himself, but his 
accompaniment has all the intricacy and inventiveness of a solo.

Mind Ecology/Do You Hear the Voices You Left Behind: This piece begins with 
a warped version of Mind Ecology and I think a bit of Get Down and Sruti as 
well.  Toward the end, Stu Goldberg's acoustic piano solo seems very out of 
place in this tune (for a minute I thought I hit the disc-change button by 
mistake and was listening to Chick Corea on Disc 7!!)

Phenomenon: Compulsion/Hope: I like Shankar's scat singing in this piece 
(is that John joining in at the end?), but again it somehow doesn't belong 
here given what came before.  'Hope' is a perfect close to this piece (I 
remember that Hope was the last tune on the first side of the Birds of Fire 
LP).

Stas


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From mstaskau@qualcomm.com Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:34:59 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7- McLaughlin's One Truth Band/Duet 
    with Chick Corea


Part 2: Montreux Box Set Disc 7 (John McLaughlin & Chick Corea)

     This disc was something of a surprise to me -- I did not know (or 
perhaps had forgotten) that John and Chick had played together as a duet 
(though of course I knew that they play along with others on the Electric 
Guitarist record and Stanley Clarke's Journey to Love).  Does anyone know 
if John and Chick ever toured as a duet in the US?

     I've always been a big fan of Chick's playing.  He really shines in a 
duet setting: I especially love his two-piano duets with Herbie Hancock 
(their performance of Maiden Voyage/La Fiesta on their first record 
together is one of my all-time favorite piano pieces).   I also like 
Chick's duets with Gary Burton (Crystal Silence and the live ECM recording 
from Switzerland come to mind).

     The pairing of Chick and John on disc 7 works beautifully -- truly 
sublime, as Rod put it.   Both men are great soloists *and* great 
accompanists, and it's amazing how well they mesh together here, each 
anticipating and supporting the other.  This recording IMO ranks up there 
with Chick's other duet outings; it's really unfortunate that they didn't 
put out a record of this music back in the day.  Most of the pieces on disc 
7 follow a similar format -- statement of main theme, then each player 
solos while the other comps.  The highlights for me so far are La Baleine 
(I love how they play the main melody in unison) and the standard Beautiful 
Love (dedicated to Bill Evans, who also recorded this tune).

Stas


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From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:40:48 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: j.haidenbauer@fz-juelich.de, one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7: OTB /Corea


....Just did some power yoga while listening to One Truth.  Rod, is usually
right.  But not this time :-)  I defy anyone to tell me that OneTruth is not
White Hot !  The version of MOTS that opens this disc is up there with
anything MO did.  This was a great band and I give one of my votes to this
disc as best disc in the set!

A friend of mine traveled to Europe some 25 years ago and came back raving
about European television. He said it featured much more art than we were
used to getting here in the States.  In particular, he had told me of the
highlight of his stay.  I sat in a jealous stupor as he told me of his good
fortune of watching Chick Corea and John McLaughlin live from the Montreux
Jazz Festival  on his hotel TV.  It would take about 15 years to catch some
bad videotape of the performance and almost 25 years to hear the performance
on a live CD.  As others have stated, it is a wonderful show that I hope
John and Chick take on tour some day.  I do have a concern that my CD may
have a problem as it has a persistent click.  But, if I can find a way to
block it out of my mind- I will feel as if I was there.

Regards,

Walter



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From rasibley@rasibley.cnc.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:46:23 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7: OTB /Corea



Walter wrote re OTB CD:

>The version of MOTS that opens this disc is up there with
>anything MO did.

   Blasphemy!!!!

   You owe me a Heineken to atone for your sin!!

>I defy anyone to tell me that OneTruth is not
>White Hot !

   "OneTruth is not White Hot  !" 

>Rod, is usually right.  But not this time :-)

   Make that *two* Heineken ;-).

atb,

r



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From mbuchanscot@yahoo.com Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:15:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Fernando Fernández 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Cc: mbuchanscot@yahoo.com
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7: OTB /Corea 

Greetings from Spain!
 
Second time I listen number 6 and it seems to me excellent, especially
Meeting of the Spirits, Two Sisters, Mind Ecology and Phenomenon
Compulsion (I know that many people in this list want to John playing in
this way in our days).
 
1 time I´ve listened number 7 and it seems to me incredible. I have no
words to describe it. It´s pure magic and a true joy. I didn´t know
Thelonius Melodius was composed many many years ago.
 
Well, that´s all for the moment.
Cheers,
Fernando.


________________________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
[dailynews.gif] Todo lo que quieres saber de Estados Unidos, América
Latina y el resto del Mundo.
Visíta Yahoo! Noticias.


From ma007a4609@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:43:03 +0000
From: Mark Anderson 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7- McLaughlin's One Truth
    Band/Duet with Chick Corea


Hi Walter

I actually saw the second version of the One Truth Band at the Rainbow 
in London and I have to say that band was the closest thing to the 
original MO that John has ever had, even the re-incarnation (MO4) can't 
match it for fire power. McLaughlin's playing is absolutely awesome; 
the electric guitar is like a toy in his hands and he constantly plays 
right off the top of the neck, like he runs out of fretboard :-)

After the acoustic Indian-ness of Shakti (which I have to admit that, 
at the time I knew was excellent but I just wasn't ready for) the 
electricity of OTB restored my faith in JM's status as an electric 
guitarist who wanted to push the envelope out as far as it would go.

By the time of the Smith/Saunders rhythm section incarnation, all the 
hokey fun of the first OTB had gone and John was back to his serious 
spirit-driven self (although many rumours abound of JM's drinking and 
smoking during the time of the first OTB band). I remember very well 
the awe inspiring version of Sanctuary he did that night and just the 
thought of it prickles my flesh. John stood centre stage in a white 
vertical close pin spot-light and played the most unearthly 
crying-guitar solo I've ever heard from him. The place was in a 
complete hushed silence as he tore these screams out of his guitar, all 
the pain and anguish of the human condition crying out for respite from 
the suffering of life. Totally otherworldly.

Tony Smith is a vastly underrated drummer; His work on the Jeff 
Beck/Jan Hammer group  live LP only tells part of the story. Super 
tight and well able to anticipate JM's solo phrasing, as only Billy C 
had been able to do before, but funky as hell and very groovy, I really 
rate this rhythmic tandem. Shankar also played exceptionally well this 
night and I've always felt that he was one of the few musicians that JM 
ever played with who could match him lick for lick and then some, an 
incredible virtuoso.

A word also for the faithful Stu Goldberg; a great keyboardist who had 
a tall order to fill, playing in Jan Hammer's shoes, but who did the 
job in exemplary style and who JM obviously held in high esteem, 
recalling him from the late MO days to fill the keys seat through OTB 
and into the 'friends' band with Jack Bruce and Billy C. Give his solo 
albums a listen when you get the chance and re-discover why JM put so 
much faith in him. I prefer Stu over Mitch and Jim B any day, although 
I think Otmaro is up there with Jan and Stu for being in JM's 'bag' as 
far as keyboards go.

As a compromise between Shakti and MO, OTB was a great effort and John 
played some of his most ferocious electric guitar ever, the original MO 
notwithstanding. This CD is a treasure, a mixed bag certainly and of 
uncertain consistency for sure, but a treasure nonetheless.

Marco

On 3 Mar 2004, at 15:52, Walter Kolosky wrote:

>
> Disc # 6
>
> Isn't the One Truth Band a hoot?  This is a great live show.  You have
> everything from Mahavishnu tunes, electric Shakti quotes,
> Phenomenon-Compulsion!, hokey poetry (granted, back then it was not so 
> hokey
> and perhaps a bit profound), and a far-out drummer.  One Truth has been
> obscenely overlooked over the years.  To this day, I still believe it 
> was
> one of the best rhythm sections John ever had.  (This includes both 
> versions
> of the band).  And I will also posit that John's writing at this time
> produced some of his most wonderful melodies.
>
> To this day, if you attend a McLaughlin concert, and he begins by 
> playing an
> introductory solo that bleeds into the arpeggio-laden strains of 
> Meeting of
> the Spirits, you still get goose bumps.  When this occurs on Disc # 6, 
> it is
> a reassuring note that you are now in a comfortable, albeit highly 
> volatile,
> musical cathedral of McLaughlin's building. And to end the concert with
> Hope.  Yes!
>
> John, using his new electric scalloped fret-board guitar, just rips 
> through
> the music and offers a new stylistic touch- short bursts of incredibly 
> fast
> full notes that sound like a pack of firecrackers exploding.  And the 
> funk.
> I think the next version of One-Truth was funkier, but this band 
> showed a
> funkier and lighter side of JM.
>
> I saw both bands.  I seem to have a strange memory that I saw the 
> second
> band at Berklee during the day.  That would be very strange.  But 
> perhaps,
> it was in summer and I gone into the early show when it was still 
> light out.
> At any rate, This was only the 3rd or 4th time I had seen JM.  I 
> remember
> that there was an intermission.  During the break people gathered out 
> into
> the halls and foyers of the Berklee Performance Center.  You don't 
> normally
> get to talk to people like that in an indoor concert.  But, this was
> different and exciting as we were, after all, at a famous music 
> school.  You
> would here things like, "Did you see that stretch"?  "Man, what was 
> that
> minor scale he played on the second piece"?
>
> After that show, my friend Buck, a very good guitar player, simply said
> (paraphrased), "When I go to see a great musician, I don't expect his 
> best
> every time.  What I do expect is his best that night.  I want to see 
> him
> "work".  I am satisfied if I see that he made every effort to be as 
> good as
> he could be instead of just gliding through.  McLaughlin worked 
> tonight.  I
> could see it.  I am very happy with his perfromance."  I have always
> remembered that bit of wisdom.
>
> That show was also hampered by all sorts of technical glitches and 
> mishaps.
> John's electric-acoustic guitar didn't work and he worked on it forever
> frustrating the audience in the meantime.  Finally we all just said we 
> could
> hear it so he would just play and get over it.  He went ahead and 
> played it
> and we couldn't hear a note of his playing.  You could tell he was 
> pissed,
> because he knew he made some runs that should have received applause, 
> but
> nothing was forthcoming.  During the same tune, he played the banjo 
> into a
> microphone and as he was playing the microphone came out of its stand 
> and
> crashed onto the floor!  As my friend Buck said, JM had to really work 
> hard
> that night.
>
> The other show took place at 1:00 in the morning!!!!!!  It was a 
> two-show
> double-bill with Billy Cobham's band.  (Who, disappointly, sucked.)  
> The
> first concert had gone way over time.  So it was a tired crowd that 
> greeted
> the band.  The hour became so late that by the end of the show, half 
> of the
> crowd was gone.  Fusion for many of these fans at 2:30 in the morning 
> was
> too much.  This was the only time I ever took a guest to see JM that 
> ended
> up hating him.  When people were cheering, "more, more", my friend 
> Louis was
> actually screaming, "no, no" !!!!!!!!
>
> The One Truth performance on the Montreux Set is reason # 100 to own 
> this
> collection.  It will be played often at my house!
>
> Regards,
>
> Walter
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe one-word" to majordomo@cs.cf.ac.uk
> For other info send word "help" to majordomo@cs.cf.ac.uk
>
>
Mark Anderson
FOXY PRODUCTIONS
Bristol
UK
www.foxyproductions.co.uk
Marco@foxyproductions.co.uk
Mob: 07973 288947


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From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:14:36 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7: OTB /Corea 

 
      Only 2 days left for MBMP #3   !!!!!!!



From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:54:10 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #3 - Discs # 6 and 7: OTB /Corea 

One day left !!!!!!!



From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:15:15 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: One-Word 
Subject: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu Discs 8 and 9


Soory for the late posting...MBMP # 4 started two days ago.  Creating the
proper heading.



****************************************************************************
****************************
Walter Kolosky- President of Special Market Services
Exclusive Distributor of the patented Smart ID product identification and
recovery system.
http://www.smartidonline.com
****************************************************************************
****************************



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From massimo.morrone@tin.it Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:24:50 +0100
From: Massimo Morrone 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu Discs 8 and 9




Walter Kolosky wrote:

>Soory for the late posting...MBMP # 4 started two days ago.  Creating the
>proper heading.
>
(doing a raspy Miles imitation), "Foley, bring
    the ghetto blastah."

best
Massimo

-- 
------------------------------------
   http://www.italway.it/morrone/           <>   <> 
------------------------------------          /_                                       
                                        ciao   >   





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From rasibley@rasibley.cnc.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:04:01 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9


Hello to All,

   Following the hodgepodge of the OTB CD, we come to box set CD's that
feature a real band. I admit that the "Mahavishnu" band made "so-so" studio
recordings, but they were a heckuva live unit. I saw this band in concert
three times, and I believe they were one of the most consistent electric
bands (live) that JMcL put together. The box set CD's give the listener a
chance to hear the band without the under-mixed bass, awful engineering,
and mediocre production of the studio recordings.

   JMcL himself was playing consistently strong with this unit. At first I
thought it was because he enjoyed playing with his new toy, the Synclavier.
While that may have been one reason, it was also because the "youngsters"
were kicking him in the ass. This was the first group where I noticed a
generational difference between JMcL and the other musicians.

   While the studio recordings from this period sound "dated" (also
mentioned by others when we did the JMMP), the concert in this box set
sounds a little "fresher". Take away the drummer, and you'd think you were
listening to the Heart Of Things band. A few comments on the tracks:

- 'Radio Activity': this is light-years better than the studio version. You
can actually hear what Jonas is doing. You can also hear the differences
between the Synclavier, horns, and keyboards. I won't get into a technical
treatise on the Synclavier; which when it came out was regarded as the
ultimate synth/production system...with a $200,000-and-up price tag. But it
is interesting to see that in the span of 18 years, John (or anyone) can do
almost everything the Synclavier did on a desktop or laptop computer for
around $10-grand.
   Playing-wise: John's solo, played with a nasty guitar tone, makes you
want to eat raw meat and gnaw on dinosaur bones. And I love Bill Evans' sax
playing: it has a "loose" feeling to it, you don't over-analyze what he's
playing. He just sounds good.

- 'Nostalgia': It's a nice version, but I never really liked this tune...

- 'East Side West Side': features a nice solo by Evans. I've always
imagined fretting an instrument while playing a JMcL melody was hard, but
blowing/breathing/fingering while doing it should qualify as "combat duty".
But Evans is on top of their union lines note-for-note. This version is
funny because [toward the end] JMcL dials up a harmonica- sounding patch
and starts playing Stevie Wonder's 'Isn't She Lovely' (from "Songs In The
Key Of Life") and the rest of the band joins in.

- 'Clarendon Hills': It's a nice version...yadda-yadda.

- "Blues for LW, etc": This features Jonas Hellborg. He starts off his solo
with a little of Hendrix's 'Little Wing'; then the solo turns into a
slap-bass free-for-all. When I saw Jonas play live for the first time, he
played 'Dance Of Maya' on his bass...distorted and *loud*. I was frothing
at the mouth by the time he finished.

- 'Jozy' [Joe Z(awinul)]: I love JMcL's chord changes and voicings at the
start of the tune. It's a nice version...badda-boom, badda-bing.

- 'Pacific Express': It's a nice version...blah, blah, blah. And while I'll
say that Danny was a good fit for this band, I'll also say "he ain't
Billy". We know about Cobham being shafted [my word] after the recording of
"Mahavishnu". When I read that Danny Gottlieb was the new drummer, I was a
little apprehensive. JMcL needs a power drummer; and after all those years
with Pat Metheny playing mostly cymbals, I didn't think he could cut it
with JMcL. But I was pleasantly surprised. But the time the band reached
Detroit in October '84 (were you there, John C.?), Danny was drumming hard
and really pushing the band.

- 'Mitch Match & MM-Reprise': This sounds so loose; it's like the band is
learning the tune.

   There are bootlegs of this band during the time when they had hit their
stride and were playing better. But the tracks on the box set CD's are a
nice alternative to their studio counterparts. You may not play these CD's
often, but they'll be there when ya need 'em.

atb,

r



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From strehl985@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:20:32 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9


As usual Rod, you manage to breathe life into the music with your reviews!  Reading your
descriptions, I can almost feel like I've heard it (and enjoyed it).  Shame that the
studio recordings were again so flat in comparison, though the studio Mahavishnu album was
a technically better recording than any of the 1970's Columbia recordings, and had
impressive dynamics.  But just when you had me sold on the live version, your comparison
to it sounding a lot like the HOT had me saying, OUCH!  :)

HOT was an album I played once and only once.  I'd be glad to give it to anyone free for
just the shipping charges.

WayneG


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Sibley" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:04 AM
Subject: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9


>
> Hello to All,
>
>    Following the hodgepodge of the OTB CD, we come to box set CD's that
> feature a real band. I admit that the "Mahavishnu" band made "so-so" studio
> recordings, but they were a heckuva live unit. I saw this band in concert
> three times, and I believe they were one of the most consistent electric
> bands (live) that JMcL put together. The box set CD's give the listener a
> chance to hear the band without the under-mixed bass, awful engineering,
> and mediocre production of the studio recordings.
>
>    JMcL himself was playing consistently strong with this unit. At first I
> thought it was because he enjoyed playing with his new toy, the Synclavier.
> While that may have been one reason, it was also because the "youngsters"
> were kicking him in the ass. This was the first group where I noticed a
> generational difference between JMcL and the other musicians.
>
>    While the studio recordings from this period sound "dated" (also
> mentioned by others when we did the JMMP), the concert in this box set
> sounds a little "fresher". Take away the drummer, and you'd think you were
> listening to the Heart Of Things band. A few comments on the tracks:
>
> - 'Radio Activity': this is light-years better than the studio version. You
> can actually hear what Jonas is doing. You can also hear the differences
> between the Synclavier, horns, and keyboards. I won't get into a technical
> treatise on the Synclavier; which when it came out was regarded as the
> ultimate synth/production system...with a $200,000-and-up price tag. But it
> is interesting to see that in the span of 18 years, John (or anyone) can do
> almost everything the Synclavier did on a desktop or laptop computer for
> around $10-grand.
>    Playing-wise: John's solo, played with a nasty guitar tone, makes you
> want to eat raw meat and gnaw on dinosaur bones. And I love Bill Evans' sax
> playing: it has a "loose" feeling to it, you don't over-analyze what he's
> playing. He just sounds good.
>
> - 'Nostalgia': It's a nice version, but I never really liked this tune...
>
> - 'East Side West Side': features a nice solo by Evans. I've always
> imagined fretting an instrument while playing a JMcL melody was hard, but
> blowing/breathing/fingering while doing it should qualify as "combat duty".
> But Evans is on top of their union lines note-for-note. This version is
> funny because [toward the end] JMcL dials up a harmonica- sounding patch
> and starts playing Stevie Wonder's 'Isn't She Lovely' (from "Songs In The
> Key Of Life") and the rest of the band joins in.
>
> - 'Clarendon Hills': It's a nice version...yadda-yadda.
>
> - "Blues for LW, etc": This features Jonas Hellborg. He starts off his solo
> with a little of Hendrix's 'Little Wing'; then the solo turns into a
> slap-bass free-for-all. When I saw Jonas play live for the first time, he
> played 'Dance Of Maya' on his bass...distorted and *loud*. I was frothing
> at the mouth by the time he finished.
>
> - 'Jozy' [Joe Z(awinul)]: I love JMcL's chord changes and voicings at the
> start of the tune. It's a nice version...badda-boom, badda-bing.
>
> - 'Pacific Express': It's a nice version...blah, blah, blah. And while I'll
> say that Danny was a good fit for this band, I'll also say "he ain't
> Billy". We know about Cobham being shafted [my word] after the recording of
> "Mahavishnu". When I read that Danny Gottlieb was the new drummer, I was a
> little apprehensive. JMcL needs a power drummer; and after all those years
> with Pat Metheny playing mostly cymbals, I didn't think he could cut it
> with JMcL. But I was pleasantly surprised. But the time the band reached
> Detroit in October '84 (were you there, John C.?), Danny was drumming hard
> and really pushing the band.
>
> - 'Mitch Match & MM-Reprise': This sounds so loose; it's like the band is
> learning the tune.
>
>    There are bootlegs of this band during the time when they had hit their
> stride and were playing better. But the tracks on the box set CD's are a
> nice alternative to their studio counterparts. You may not play these CD's
> often, but they'll be there when ya need 'em.
>
> atb,
>
> r



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From rasibley@rasibley.cnc.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:08:11 -0500
From: Rod Sibley 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9


Aloha,

WayneG wrote re my review:

>But just when you had me sold on the live version, your comparison
>to it sounding a lot like the HOT had me saying, OUCH!  :)

   Yeeeeah, the HoT thing can be a pretty divisive topic of discussion.
Most of the "HoT" CD isn't my cup-of-tea, either: I mainly have a problem
with the sound and production. But to clarify: my Mahavishnu/HoT bands
comparison was written with the "Live In Paris" CD in mind. Many people
that hate the studio recording will agree that the HoT band does redeem
themselves [somewhat] on this disc.

Have a great weekend,

r



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From strehl985@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:16:21 -0500
From: W. Gondella 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Sibley" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9


> Most of the "HoT" CD isn't my cup-of-tea, either: I mainly have a problem
> with the sound and production. But to clarify: my Mahavishnu/HoT bands
> comparison was written with the "Live In Paris" CD in mind. Many people
> that hate the studio recording will agree that the HoT band does redeem
> themselves [somewhat] on this disc.

Rodman,

My problem with the studio CD was that I never heard Johnny Mac *play*!  I heard sax, I
heard this, I heard that, and I kept saying to myself, "Where's Johnny?"  Was he just
standing there on the stage?  Was he late for the recording?  Would he maybe be on the
next song?  Where is the electric guitar?  An acoustic solo?  An occasional pluck of a
string?  Here is the greatest guitarist of all time and I don't even hear him playing in
the background on his own album!

As to "Live In Paris" I keep hearing that remark that it is so much better.  But I am not
conducive to giving the band another chance.  They would have to be 1000X better to be
worth the risk.  Also, I would be rewarding them with two purchases for allowing me to buy
their first lousy performance.  I have to wonder that when they recorded the studio
version if they ever played it back and John asked, "Is this what I want the world to have
and know of us?"  Apparently yes.  And I have never understood the situation where a hot
band will make a rather sedate studio recording and release it when their very success and
ultimate profits are largely determined or influenced (I would think) by the interest and
impact that studio recording creates.

Such a downhill slide (for me) has been the last few JM releases that I have yet to be
compelled to even think about stopping at a record store and buying a copy of T&P, though
I'm sure eventually, I'll happen across it and buy it (again) just because it is John
McLaughlin and I am hopelessly in love with his fingers and the soaring flights of
passionate introspection that drive them.

WayneG



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From m.chiste@tin.it Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:36:32 +0100
From: Claudio Zanvettor 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9

  It was a treat for me to listen to John McL playing the synclavier.
He did it wonderfully. Personnally I loved - still love,
and consider "Mahavishnu" as one of his best albums in the body of his
work - this album from 1984, which had such great pieces as
"Radio-Activity", "Nostalgia", "Jazz", "The Unbeliever", "Pacific
Express", but then, I like all tracks in that album. And his follow-up,
"Adventures in Radioland" was a fantastic album too (perhaps even better,
but I am hesitant), with John who demonstrated his best compostional
skills in pieces in  intense pieces  as "The Wait", "Just Ideas/Jozy",
"Gotta dance", "The Wall Will Fall", "Reincarnation" and in a lighter
mood the aerial "Florianapolis", and all the other
pieces of "Adventures". The band too was a huge one. 
Again, if I personnally have to chhose among the best productions of the
1984 and 1987 years, I'd  mention "Mahavishnu" , together with "Metal
Fatigue", by Allan Holdsworth respectively for the year 1984, and
"Adventures in Radioland"  among the best albums in my taste for 1987,
together with the highly-innovative "Sand" by Holdsworth, and
probably the very good "A Present for the Future", by Frank Gambale, of
the same year too, but I forget some (or many) others most probably -
 :-)) .
 
Cd's 8 & 9 - live in Montreux, fourth edition of the Mahavishnu band:
Disc 8 -
  It's true, we don't listen to Billy Cobham here, in 1984 edition at
the Montreux festival, but to Danny Gottlieb from the "AiR" line-up, and
is able to give a great lesson of drumming. The band shows itself in
great form. The performance stands on a high level of quality, John
outstanding in the band as we expected him to be.
 
  Radio-Activity - is coming first, righteously. John's playing needs no
comment, it speaks for itself.
 
  Nostalgia - This track sounds melodically beautiful to me. very sweet,
and convincing too. I preferred Bill Evans sax and JML interplay in the
studio, the slightly more contained and allusive style of playing of Bill
in the studio recording sounded to me more adapted and consonant to
the spirit and general feeling of this piece. Very airy notes
and beautiful notes from John's synclavier, in mood with this
introspective theme. Then Bill Evans catches on well befor the closing
and reprise.
 
  West Side East Side - Bill Evans is taking the lead before John gets
in with densely-filled lines of notes.
 
  Clarendon Hills - nice pastoral theme.  This is another example of 
poetic sense of inventiveness in the music.
 
  Blues for L.W., It's the Pits & Living on the Crest of a Wave - the
band is flying together, floating above the ground for the
closing of  disc 8. 
 
Disc 9 -
 
  Jozy - it was dedicated to Joe Zawinul (Josy) and it is a highlight
of the studio album and played live here. I certainly stands as great
piece of inspired creativity of John's features.
 
  Pacific Express - briefly said: let the music speak for itself 
 
  Mitch Match - this I personnally feel more intense and deep than the
studio shorter version.
 
  OK - I just humbly said what I thought,
 
  Cheers to All OW's
 
  Claudio
 


From m.chiste@tin.it Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:58:00 +0100
From: Claudio Zanvettor 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP # 4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9

  It was a treat for me to listen to John McL playing the synclavier.
He did it wonderfully. Personnally I loved - still love,
and consider "Mahavishnu" as one of his best albums in the entire body of
his work - this album from 1984, which had such great pieces as
"Radio-Activity", "Nostalgia", "Jazz", "The Unbeliever", "Pacific
Express", but then, I like all tracks of the album. And his follow-up,
"Adventures in Radioland" was a fantastic album too (perhaps even better,
but I am hesitant), with John who demonstrated his best compostional
skills in pieces in  intense pieces  as "The Wait", "Just Ideas/Jozy",
"Gotta dance", "The Wall Will Fall", "Reincarnation" and in a lighter
mood the aerial "Florianapolis", and all the other
pieces of "Adventures". The band too was a huge one. 
Again, if I personnally have to chhose among the best productions of the
1984 and 1987 years, I'd  mention "Mahavishnu" , together with "Metal
Fatigue", by Allan Holdsworth respectively for the year 1984, and
"Adventures in Radioland"  among the best albums in my taste for 1987,
together with the highly-innovative "Sand" by Holdsworth, and
probably the very good "A Present for the Future", by Frank Gambale, of
the same year too, but I forget some (or many) others most probably -
 :-)) .
 
Cd's 8 & 9 - live in Montreux, fourth edition of the Mahavishnu band:
Disc 8 -
  It's true, we don't listen to Billy Cobham here, in this1984'
edition of the Montreux festival, but to Danny Gottlieb from the "AiR"
line-up, who is able to show  a great lesson of drumming. The band shows
itself in great form. The performance stands on a high level of quality,
John outstanding in the band as we expect/ed him to be.
 
  Radio-Activity - is coming first, righteously. John's playing needs no
comment, it speaks for itself.
 
  Nostalgia - This track sounds melodically beautiful to me. Very sweet,
and convincing too. I preferred Bill Evans sax and JML interplay in the
studio, the slightly more contained and allusive style of playing of Bill
in the studio recording sounded to me more adapted and consonant to
the spirit and general feeling of this piece. Very airy notes
and beautiful notes from John's synclavier, in tune with this
introspective theme. Then Bill Evans catches on well before the closing
and reprise.
 
  West Side East Side - Bill Evans is taking the lead before John gets
in with densely-filled and rich textures of notes.
 
  Clarendon Hills - nice pastoral theme.  This is another example of 
poetic sense of inventiveness in music.
 
  Blues for L.W., It's the Pits & Living on the Crest of a Wave - the
band is flying together, floating above the ground for the
closing of  disc 8. 
 
Disc 9 -
  Jozy - it was dedicated to Joe Zawinul (Josy) and it is a highlight
of the studio album and played live here. I certainly stands as great
piece of inspired creativity of John's best features.
 
  Pacific Express - briefly said: let the music speak for itself being,
take a deep breath and enjoy! 
 
  Mitch Match - this I personnally feel more intense and deeper than the
studio shorter version.
 
  OK - I said what I thought,
 
  And Cheers to All OW's
 
  Claudio


From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:59:00 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9


I saw this band twice.  I must totally concur with Rod about the "live"
performances being so much better than the records.  I don't think this was
necessarily because the music was any better than the records...and to be
honest with you I really like Adventures in RadioLand, but because in person
you could get into what John was doing with his sythesizer more than you
could on the records.  You could see him stretch and put forth the
effort...on record you weren't always sure he was even playing.  But even
his most adventuresome solos, for the most part, were muted by the selection
of whatever patch he was using.  This is a huge drawback in an otherwise
very daring live performance.  Did anyone else notice that his synth seems
like it got hung up on a note that he couldn't get rid of several times
during these two discs?  Or that more than a few times it appears to go out
of tune?

The Mitchel Forman band was superior to the Jim Beard band.  But of the two
concerts I saw, the Jim Beard band was better.  I think this is simply
because John only played a tune or two with the synthesizer if I remember
right.  It is possible he didn't play any, as he had learned by then that
the fans wanted to hear him on a real electric guitar.

The set we hear on these two discs is outstanding.  And, of course, would
have been even more outstanding without the synth.  IMHO Radio-Activity and
Mitch-Match were the only two pieces in which the Roland made perfect sense.
Listening to Radio-Activity all these years later, makes it clear that
McLaughlin was in full experimentation, combining the basic forms of music
with the computer age and a social message.  The long drawn-out decay of the
head arrangement patch imitating the natural decay of radio-active material
is a clear sign.

Despite the fact I moan about the synth, there is no doubt that John and the
crew go out on the limb with it and make some very interesting music.  The
spatial moments, that always seem a part of John's bands- even the Free
Spirits- are very interesting.  Again, I assure you, much more interesting
in person.  I also tend to agree with Rod that Nostalgia is a tune I have
heard almost too often.  I just remain patient though it- although I do
confess its melody is quite beautiful.  Pacific Express and Clarendon Hills
soar.  I want to highly suggest you seek out Bill Evans' album Living in the
Crest of a Wave.  This was recorded in the mid 80's when Evans was really
putting out some fine music.  Also check out Live at the Tokyo Blue Note I
and II.  It is outstanding fusion music from Bill before he began to lose
the way.  (IMHO)

Mitchel Forman (Mitch-Match) has always been one of my favorite JM sidemen.
You owe it to yourself to find his solo project, Only a Memory, you will
find many riffs that would eventually end-up in the Mahavishnu arsenal.
Jonas Hellborg's reference to Little Wing also suggests you obtain some of
his earlier recordings such as Bass and Elegant Punk.  I don't want to leave
Danny Gottlieb out of this Memory Lane trip.  His extended solo on the
Montreux disc is disappointing.  It almost brings the whole show down, but
he is a fine player.  Check out his album Aquamarine.  I promise you will
like it.

All in all, this was one of John's finer bands that would have beem more
memorable had Johnny just plugged in his electric.  But the man is a
searcher and the I am sure he found the experimentation worth the effort.

Note:  I have always cringed when I have heard people refer to this band as
THE MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA.  I just always called it "Mahavishnu".  Well
wouldn't you know it.  At the end of the show, if you listen, you hear
McLaughlin call it "The Mahavishnu Orchestra".  Listen and learn.

I will be playing disc 8 often.

Regards,

Walter



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From massimo.morrone@tin.it Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:13:34 +0100
From: Massimo Morrone 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9




Rod Sibley wrote:

>Hello to All,
>
>   Following the hodgepodge of the OTB CD, we come to box set CD's that
>feature a real band. I admit that the "Mahavishnu" band made "so-so" studio
>recordings, but they were a heckuva live unit. I saw this band in concert
>three times, and I believe they were one of the most consistent electric
>bands (live) that JMcL put together. The box set CD's give the listener a
>chance to hear the band without the under-mixed bass, awful engineering,
>and mediocre production of the studio recordings.
>
I wonder why JmL still keeps under his arms the same audio engineer over 
the years!
JmL must be a jerk.....no doubt.

>   While the studio recordings from this period sound "dated" (also
>mentioned by others when we did the JMMP), the concert in this box set
>sounds a little "fresher". Take away the drummer, and you'd think you were
>listening to the Heart Of Things band.
>
Well, this is an easy going thought.
It is clear that you are not very fond of jazz culture.
Musicians of the two bands have very different roots.
Let's take the saxophonists: Bill Evans is a white musician crazy for 
Trane, Gary Thomas is a black musician very M-Base influenced. I don't 
hear any similarity between the two.
Bass players: one is a white Swedish who came up practicing the hip-then 
Marcus Miller slap school while the other the son of Jimmy Garrison (one 
of the greatest black bass players in the whole jazz history); just dig 
how they make their beat underneath. Do you hear any similarity on their 
accompaniments? C'mon!
Frankly, from a man who comes from the Motown like you I didn't expect 
such an oversight!         :-)
Last but not least the keyboardists: Mitch Forman is a different player 
than Otmaro Ruiz and even Jim Beard is a different player than the Jim 
Beard heard on HOT!

> A few comments on the tracks:
>
>- 'Radio Activity': this is light-years better than the studio version. You
>can actually hear what Jonas is doing. You can also hear the differences
>between the Synclavier, horns, and keyboards. I won't get into a technical
>treatise on the Synclavier; which when it came out was regarded as the
>ultimate synth/production system...with a $200,000-and-up price tag. But it
>is interesting to see that in the span of 18 years, John (or anyone) can do
>almost everything the Synclavier did on a desktop or laptop computer for
>around $10-grand.
>
The Synclavier System from NED (New England Digital) has been the most 
sophisticated digital audio production system for at least a decade. I 
personally had the pleasure to work with at Creative Audio Recording (a 
dream studio located downtown N.Y.C.) back in 1990. They got two 
Synclavier II one for studio A and one for studio B.
That was the place used to work a friend of mine Mr. Jason Baker with 
famous keyboardist Pete Levin (Gil Evans Orchestra,  & Tony Levin's 
brother too) and where I met Danny Gottlieb who at the time recorded a 
couple of albums there.
Although now you can get the Synclavier Sampling Library on one CD you 
cannot get the same feel on how it worked the whole thing back then. 
It's like about your above HOT statement: every piece of gear has its 
own history and its own time just like every JmL band's character.


best
Massimo

-- 
------------------------------------
   http://www.italway.it/morrone/           <>   <> 
------------------------------------          /_                                       
                                        ciao   >   






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From massimo.morrone@tin.it Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:13:34 +0100
From: Massimo Morrone 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu: Discs 8 & 9




Rod Sibley wrote:

>Hello to All,
>
>   Following the hodgepodge of the OTB CD, we come to box set CD's that
>feature a real band. I admit that the "Mahavishnu" band made "so-so" studio
>recordings, but they were a heckuva live unit. I saw this band in concert
>three times, and I believe they were one of the most consistent electric
>bands (live) that JMcL put together. The box set CD's give the listener a
>chance to hear the band without the under-mixed bass, awful engineering,
>and mediocre production of the studio recordings.
>
I wonder why JmL still keeps under his arms the same audio engineer over 
the years!
JmL must be a jerk.....no doubt.

>   While the studio recordings from this period sound "dated" (also
>mentioned by others when we did the JMMP), the concert in this box set
>sounds a little "fresher". Take away the drummer, and you'd think you were
>listening to the Heart Of Things band.
>
Well, this is an easy going thought.
It is clear that you are not very fond of jazz culture.
Musicians of the two bands have very different roots.
Let's take the saxophonists: Bill Evans is a white musician crazy for 
Trane, Gary Thomas is a black musician very M-Base influenced. I don't 
hear any similarity between the two.
Bass players: one is a white Swedish who came up practicing the hip-then 
Marcus Miller slap school while the other the son of Jimmy Garrison (one 
of the greatest black bass players in the whole jazz history); just dig 
how they make their beat underneath. Do you hear any similarity on their 
accompaniments? C'mon!
Frankly, from a man who comes from the Motown like you I didn't expect 
such an oversight!         :-)
Last but not least the keyboardists: Mitch Forman is a different player 
than Otmaro Ruiz and even Jim Beard is a different player than the Jim 
Beard heard on HOT!

> A few comments on the tracks:
>
>- 'Radio Activity': this is light-years better than the studio version. You
>can actually hear what Jonas is doing. You can also hear the differences
>between the Synclavier, horns, and keyboards. I won't get into a technical
>treatise on the Synclavier; which when it came out was regarded as the
>ultimate synth/production system...with a $200,000-and-up price tag. But it
>is interesting to see that in the span of 18 years, John (or anyone) can do
>almost everything the Synclavier did on a desktop or laptop computer for
>around $10-grand.
>
The Synclavier System from NED (New England Digital) has been the most 
sophisticated digital audio production system for at least a decade. I 
personally had the pleasure to work with at Creative Audio Recording (a 
dream studio located downtown N.Y.C.) back in 1990. They got two 
Synclavier II one for studio A and one for studio B.
That was the place used to work a friend of mine Mr. Jason Baker with 
famous keyboardist Pete Levin (Gil Evans Orchestra,  & Tony Levin's 
brother too) and where I met Danny Gottlieb who at the time recorded a 
couple of albums there.
Although now you can get the Synclavier Sampling Library on one CD you 
cannot get the same feel on how it worked the whole thing back then. 
It's like about your above HOT statement: every piece of gear has its 
own history and its own time just like every JmL band's character.


best
Massimo

-- 
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   http://www.italway.it/morrone/           <>   <> 
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                                        ciao   >   






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From walterkolosky@comcast.net Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:14:39 -0500
From: Walter Kolosky 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu Discs 8 and 9


There are only two days left in the discussion of MBMP #4.

I would have thought many more people would have posted about these two
discs!


Walter




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From mstaskau@qualcomm.com Thu Apr  1 19:53:08 2004
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:58:04 -0800
From: Mark Staskauskas 
Reply-To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
To: one-word@cs.cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: [OW] MBMP #4 - Mahavishnu Discs 8 and 9 


    Sneaking in at the last minute once again...

     These discs contain music from the Mahavishnu and Adventures in 
Radioland records.  John has alternated between electric and acoustic 
periods a lot during his career, and these records represent the electric 
period following the acoustic Belo Horizonte and Music Spoken Here.

     The Mahavishnu record came out in 1984, when I had just moved from 
California to Austin, Texas to return to grad school.  During one of my 
many moves after that, I decided to get rid of my turntable and LP 
collection, and since I hadn't taped Mahavishnu, I did not listen to this 
record for many years until its long-overdue CD reissue a while back.  It 
was great hearing Mahavishnu again -- I think it's a really solid album, 
and hearing it always brings back memories of Austin.

     Adventures in Radioland was probably the first JM record I ever bought 
that really didn't do anything for me...nothing on it really resonated, and 
I have trouble remembering any of the tunes.  This album seems to lack the 
passion of John's earlier work.  It also gets my vote for tune with the 
worst title ever on a JM record (Half Man, Half Cookie).   For me, AiR 
marks the beginning of John's "later" period, which for the most part has 
not affected me even remotely as much as what came before.

     Montreux discs 8 and 9 do not contain many surprises -- the band 
sticks fairly close to the studio versions of the tunes, though the solos 
are a bit longer and more impassioned.  John is often in the background 
here, and he mostly plays the guitar synth, which on first listen makes it 
hard to distinguish his playing from Mitch's.  Like Walter, I'm not too 
fond of John's synth playing.

     A few comments on the pieces on disc 8:

Radio Activity -- John sounds like a rock-guitar god -- some really 
incendiary shredding here, his best on these two discs IMO.

Nostalgia -- A beautiful ballad...I've been whistling this tune a lot 
lately.  John covers the changes nicely in his solo.

East Side West Side -- I believe it's on this tune that the band breaks 
into Isn't She Lovely by Stevie Wonder.

Blues For L.W., It's The Pits & Living On The Crest Of A Wave -- This piece 
begins with a gorgeous Blues for L.W. -- very quiet, with John's 
crystalline guitar intertwining beautifully with the sax and 
keyboards.  This was the highlight of the disc for me and much too short; I 
wish they played in this vein a little longer.

Stas 


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